In defence of the cross

A 5th reply to Paul Cohen

2009-03-15T15:13:00.000-07:00

Now you admit you had red the posts, yet you still can't point out anything specific or show how or where I am in error. Whether informed or not, you accuse me falsely and without substance.

Paul how many times or different ways can I say I read some of your responses AFTER the fact. What part of AFTER are you having a problem with?

As to me not pointing out anything specific, I have already told you I would not judge you based on what you said to or about others but what you have said to me. And I have pointed out every occurrence of your judgments without knowledge. Thus showing you and your followers your error in judgment of me and your errors in understanding of some of the scriptures. Notably those where you put yourself forward.

I gave you the benefit of a doubt, allowing you did not know what you were saying.

How is judging me as one who gives a false offering of salvation giving me the benefit of the doubt?

Besides have you not been proclaiming these judgments of me are from the Father? So if they were of the Father what in the world are you doing giving me the benefit of the doubt? Did you somehow think the Father would be in error in His judgments?

Again your own words are your undoing.

You now prove you judged without knowledge, both before and after being informed. You are exposed, your accusations made against me evidently self-directed, because you are looking at your own corruption in the mirror when you say I don't know what I am talking about.

Still trying to pull the mote out of another’s eye while the plank remains in your own I see.

You never knew what you were talking about and don't care what the facts are – to hell with those! What a hypocrite you are!

Hmmm the FACTS have all been recorded in our letters Paul for all to see, thus you expose nothing here but yourself.

If I can know nothing of your heart, as you say, then how it is you can know it, and how is it you judge mine?

I never said I knew what was in your heart Paul, I judged you based on your words and your attitude towards me, pointing out in scripture that STRIFE is who sets themselves forward as you do, and what fruit it is that produces STRIFE.

God says no man can know the heart. He was speaking of those in sin, which you admit you are. So it is impossible for you to know yourself or me. But while you are incapable of proper judgment as a sinner, you are very wrong about those in Christ being in sin. We, those of us who live in and by Him, are not in sin:"We know that everyone who has been born of God does not continue to sin, but the one born of God guards himself, and the evil one does not touch him. We know that we are of God, and all the world [that includes Scott, as by his own admission] lies in evil" (1 John 5:18-19 MKJV).

You do not understand that scripture Paul; thus, have misapplied it. The answer lies in the two types of sin mentioned in the preceding verses.

Your own words here have undone you again Paul, so for your follower’s sake I post the following.

1 John 1:8-10
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

You followers of Paul C read this again and again as many times as is needed for it to enter into your hearts. And take special notice of verse 8 which states:

IF WE SAY THAT WE HAVE NO SIN, WE DECIEVE OURSELVES, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN US.

Then read Romans 7 for ST. Paul who most definitely was born of God struggled with sin, doing those things he would not because of the law of sin within him.

Are you sure you want to follow one who says they have no sin? If you do it is towards your own folly as can be seen according to the above scripture.

Why do you complain if you are in sin and I point it out, whether regarding you or others? Do you not want to repent and be made clean, acceptable to the Lord? No, you don't. That is why you are full of contradiction, as with all sinners who love their sins more than the Truth.
"He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed, that He might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because His seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God" (1 John 3:8-9 HNV).God has not spoken to you. You have been hearing from, and listening to, a devil, which explains your confusion. God is not the author of confusion.

Your understanding of scripture leaves a lot to be desired Paul, for you do not understand who it is that these scriptures are pertaining to. They speak of the two Adams but I don’t expect you to understand that. .

So in closing I will address your followers.

Jesus said my sheep know my voice and a stranger they will not follow.

So why are you following these men?

Strife which comes from the fruit of the flesh in the NT and means a courting distinction, a desire to put one’s self forward, a partisan and fractious spirit which does not disdain low arts.

Take special notice of these words and ask yourselves if Paul C does not exhibit these things, he most definitely puts himself forward, and displays a fractious spirit using low arts towards any that disagree with him.

AND

IF WE SAY THAT WE HAVE NO SIN, WE DECIEVE OURSELVES, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN US.

So I ask you again, in light of the above scripture are you sure you want to be following one who believes such as this?

a fourth reply to Paul Cohen

2009-03-12T13:27:00.000-07:00

The same manner of color in posting applies here as in my other replies.

"I was speaking of the entire section of The Deadly Error of the Universalists, as should have been understood when I pointed out what I did about Gary."

Thank you for that correction, Scott, I see what you are saying now.I thought you were talking about what was said on Tentmaker.

I couldn't see how you could say that I exposed myself at "tents," except you had finally red the postings on our site. My mistake, but my original question remains: How could you make judgments (such as, I exposed myself on "tents") regarding something you had not seen?

And if you have seen the postings now, please show how I was exposed by them, and for saying what specifically that was wrong. The only reasonable and good thing to do at this point is to go to our site and carefully review the postings and replies from Tentmaker, and respond to those, citing the specifics. Here is the link: Kicked Out of the Tent

Paul I did read a few replies you made to those at tents AFTER the fact but before I said you exposed yourself at tents. I read these when you said you had made your comments while still on tents. And the judgments to my bro/sis at tents and towards myself were without knowledge and it is this reason I said you exposed yourself.

I know many of the people at tents and have for some time now, I have disagreement with them and they with me, but none of us would dare say because of our disagreements that the other was not a child of God or did not know God or call them sons of satan.

As for Gary Amirault, we have nothing against him. We posted all his words, and would have also gladly answered him further, had he answered us again. What you see there are his responses, unedited and unfiltered, and what we have said in reply stands, because it is the Truth, Which is no respecter of persons.

I have no problem if you have a disagreement with Gary over some of the things he say, I too in the past (because Gary very seldom posts on tents) have had disagreement with him over the law, but that does not make Gary a sinner anymore than it does me or you.

Remember my example I gave about my mother and myself in my last reply and apply it here.

We would be glad to hear Gary retract his statements, if he did so because he was coming to the Light of all men, repenting of his sins and carnal ways. That would be wonderful! He and his family are greatly suffering the ravages of sin, as do many on Tentmaker.

We ALL have sin Paul, even you, the scriptures state as much. Therefore judging another for their sin is looking at the mote in the eye when a blank is thy own. We are to judge NOTHING before the time, for our judgment is not perfect because we are not yet perfect, but we do press on to that perfection. Therefore, until we are perfect we are not to judge one another, yes we can judge sin to be sin but not the people themselves for we do not know the work that Christ is doing within another’s heart. After all Christ first makes clean, the inside of the cup before the outside is made clean.

Jesus said let him who is without sin cast the stone, yet you have been casting stone while sin still abides within you.

Now, when you carefully read the actual postings, you will have the opportunity to see for yourself that you are very mistaken about what we believe regarding those on Tentmaker (or as pertains to anyone who professes faith in Christ). You write as if we judged the people there to be unbelievers because they lacked some certain doctrinal understanding, giving me the example of how you did not dismiss your mother on such grounds because for many years she did not believe in the restitution of all things. We did not judge the people there (or anywhere) in this manner. That is an untrue allegation, which will be borne out for anyone who informs him or herself of what was actually said in the postings.

Paul like I said I did read a few since we first started these letters and you used the same judgment against them as you did me. And like I have said repeatedly that judgment is without knowledge.

The Lord Jesus Christ commands His followers to know others by their fruits. Doctrines are not fruits. Lacking understanding in all doctrinal truths is not a problem for the saints, any more than it is for people in the everyday world; one does not expect a child in kindergarten to have the understanding or knowledge of an adult. What we addressed on Tentmaker, as we do everywhere we are sent by God, were the hearts of men, from which comes all manner of wrongdoing and thinking.

You are NOT in the place to judge the hearts of men for ye are NOT yet perfect.

You know NOTHING of what is in my heart Paul for if you did you would never have judged me as you have done.

I know to whom I belong to Paul and no man can tell me else wise.

You have judged me and those at tents by the outside of the cup Paul; therefore, you judge us as sons of satan. And this is what undone you on tents.

If you had of come to have fellowship then myself and others there would have welcomed you with open arms, we might have had disagreement with one another but I would never have judged you based on those disagreements.

A third reply to Paul Cohen

2009-03-12T04:31:00.000-07:00

Paul you wrote

"Yes, every man in his own order, according to His will. Being out of order will not cut it, though. That is what I found and exposed at Tentmaker, and hear in your preaching. You continue to manifest The Deadly Error of the Universalists. It may help you to read the entire section:
Universalism."

To which I said

"And I did finish reading the entire section Paul and was in agreement with you, but now I have to wonder if you did to Gary what you just finished doing to me, putting words in his mouth that he never said just your interpretation of what he said in order to promote yourself and what you believe over others."

I was speaking of the entire section of The Deadly Error of the Universalists, as should have been understood when I pointed out what I did about Gary. And from what I had said earlier about only reading the first little bit of that article.

I was not speaking about everything you wrote on Universalism.

Paul you write.

“So you did say you had red the posting and even say you were in agreement with what I said (which I take to mean you understood it).”

That should go without saying Paul, in order to be in agreement one must understand what the other said.

In that section of the article you speak on people needing to take up their cross and follow Him, of killing off the old man. of enduring unto the end, of doing the works the He did etc.

And I am in full agreement with these things.

However, as I have not read anything of what Gary has wrote except the quotes you posted in that article I do not know if Gary believes what you state he believes or not.

I am not saying Gary does not believe as you state he does Paul (that’s why I said now I have to wonder....) for he may very well believe after that fashion, for I too know of people who believe the law is no longer in effect, that we do not have to do any works etc.

But the difference between what I believe and you believe as regarding the state these people are in is a world of difference.

Let me give you an example: for many, many years my mom did not believe in the restitution of all things, therefore according to your understanding she would not be a true follower of Christ, but I know differently; she was and is a follower of Christ but in this area God in His mercy towards me gave forth this revelation of the restitution of all things to me.

This does not in any way mean I am more spiritual then she is, it just means in this area I have more light then she does, but this I also know, that she has more light in other areas then I do.

Not all are the hand or the feet Paul, we have need of the whole body of Christ and just as she needed the light God gave me concerning the restitution of all things I also need the light God has given her in other matters.

A second reply to Paul Cohen

2009-03-10T17:35:00.000-07:00

As in the first reply Pauls words will be in black, except were he qoutes me (they will be in green) and my words will be in color.

Scott, you complain that I have judged you according to conditional statements you made before actually hearing what I said. Yet you have not changed your tune on those statements, even though you now say that you have red all the postings and understand what I said.

Paul this is another perfect example of you hearing what you want to hear and not what people actually say. How many different ways can I say I was NOT there when these things took place so DON”T know what you actually said as many of your post WERE DELETED.

So how is it now you say I said I have read all the postings and understand what you said?

You are twisting my words Paul, please point out where I said I have read all the postings and understand what you said.

Like I said before your twisting of my words is your undoing here, if you wrote your reply from what you received from our Father to give to me as correction this would NOT have happened.

Thus showing you have become puffed up with knowledge and; therefore, do not know, as ye ought.

The silly things about twisting my words on an open platform where other can freely read including your students shows everyone that what you say is given to you of God about me is NOT of the Father, for if it was given to you of the Father this would not have happened. God does NOT make mistakes.

In other words, your statements are no longer conditional. You maintain that I judged the people on Tentmaker unrighteously. Otherwise, you would plainly and forthrightly dismiss your false conjectures in the sight of those to whom you made them. You have not done any of these things.

Again you show you hear what you want to hear Paul, did I not say in my reply to you:

That my point Paul, I NEVER said what you said was untrue, or wrong nor did I base ANYTHING on my personal opinion. I do NOT KNOW what you said that why I NEVER judged you for your words or action. If I did judge you for them based on what others said do you really think I would have spoken up for you?

So how is it now you say I judge you of unrighteous judgement of the people on tents?
Any judgements I have given towards you has been based on your replies to ME and have NOTHING to do with the peoples on Tents.

In my initial reply I answered your theories and speculations that were addressed to me before all. I described the errors you made public, which you haven't retracted when they were proven baseless. Therefore the shoe fits and remains on your foot. The judgments I spoke against you and your conditional accusations have found their home, as appointed by God Who gave them. You will now reap the consequences of breaking His commandment (bearing false witness against your neighbor), which you cannot argue away with spiritual reasonings, leastways not with God.

It is NOT I who have twisted your words Paul it is YOU who have twisted MINE. And this can be seen by ALL (even your students) who read these letters we have both written to one another.

You don’t even realise how bad this looks for you before God and those who read these letters. Even your student can recognise that the Father does not make such mistakes; therefore, they now know that your judgment of me is NOT of the Father.

Like I said you were silly to twist my words on an open platform, for know you are in danger of losing credibility with your own followers.

You had no business speculating on what I said, and then speculating on the meaning of what you speculated I said. You did so against the Word of God, taking the word of liars rather than seeking His only.

Again, for the third time now I’ll repeat:

That my point Paul, I NEVER said what you said was untrue, or wrong nor did I base ANYTHING on my personal opinion. I do NOT KNOW what you said that why I NEVER judged you for your words or action. If I did judge you for them based on what others said do you really think I would have spoken up for you?

I never took anyone’s word against you Paul, any judgments from me towards you have been based solely on your own words to me in these letters.

You chose to justify men in their darkness, sins, and lies. You did that for yourself, not them. You played the part of a hero, falsely accusing me on their behalf, while trying to appear the objective and wise Christian.

Please show me anywhere I falsely accused you of anything. The more you write me the bigger hole you dig for yourself, making accusations that ALL who read these letters can easily see for themselves.

That which I wrote in my letter to you exposed you as a theoretical Christian, one who tries to talk the talk, but doesn't know what he is talking about and doesn't admit it when found out. All you have done now in reply is to show yourself as an unrepentant blowhard and fool.

Funny thing is Paul I refuted your understanding of scripture with the scriptures themselves and your only defence is I am an unrepentant blowhard and a fool.

Need I remind you of Jesus’ words “but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.”

I admit that it would have been simpler had I asked you to read over the posts on our site and then comment. But now that you have red them, and continue as before with the same complaint, not seeing a thing that nullifies it, only goes to prove that my judgments were accurate. Nevertheless, I am not writing you off because you have acted foolishly in unbelief. I am instead speaking to you as one being in great need of repentance, which means there is much to be gained if you will listen. Only stubborn pride will keep you in the darkness that leads to destruction. Will you listen, or am I your enemy because I tell you the truth?

Why should I call you my enemy? Do not the scriptures proclaim?

Romans 8:31
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

I have more to specifically say about your response:You write:

"Please show me anywhere in anything I wrote were I judged you or your words."

You openly dismissed the letters on our website, saying they were "a type of attitude of judgment" that you didn't like.

Hmmm what you see as judgment I see as preference, I prefer seeing one who speaks in love and these are not words of love, unrepentant blowhard and fool.

But then again you only quoted a small part of what I said.

Here is the full quote.

Hi Jab, I only read a little under the error of what universalsit beleive, but have sence posting my post here I have read some of his replies to the posters here and no I don't like that type of attitude of judgment but it could be a response of being banned from here, you know like someone getting their nicker all up in a bunch. Only God knows for sure. Anyway its not my place to pass judgment on anyone and if you can get pasts his posts directed at those on this board he does have some good things to say. Eat the meat spit out the bones.

You will note that my posts that you have been attempting to refute were written BEFORE I had read anything other than the beginning of the error of what Universalist believe NOT AFTER I read your responses to the people on Tents. Context does make a difference and anyway I said that your responses MIGHT have been because you were banned but it was NOT my place to PASS JUDGMENT on anyone, but I guess you just looked past those statements.

I said more than opinion was necessary to condemn our words from God as carnal judgment, but you still have given no specifics. All you say is:

"…words of judgment do not bother me, words of judgment without knowledge do."

If that is not judging us and our words, I don't know what is.

Did I make that statement about what you said on Tents or did I say that in response to your judgment of me?

Let’s look you wrote to ME and said

Because you find our words a "type of attitude of judgment" that you don't like, doesn't qualify them as error. You may be wrong in your judgment of our judgment, both in where we are coming from and the validity of our words. That you do not even allow for this possibility shows you are already in error and don't understand the most basic principles of godly judgment.

And I replied

Paul words of judgment do not bother me, words of judgment without knowledge do.
Here you say I found your words as a judgment and I don’t like them so believe you to be in error, then you go on to say I may be wrong in my judgment of your judgment and that I do not even allow for this possibility shows I am already in error and don’t understand the most basic principles of Godly judgment.

Please show me anywhere in anything I wrote were I judged you or your words.

Yet here you have made a judgment of me based on NOTHING that I have said or implied and that is a judgment without knowledge. Do not let what others from tents have said to you influence you in your judgment of me Paul, judge me if you must on what I SAY not what you perceive me to say.

So if you cannot find where I judged you or your words it would behove in the Lord to remove your judgment of me least you find yourself being judged likewise of the Lord.

Like I said I have NOT judged you on what you have said on Tents, I judged you based on your replies to ME. Yet you are trying to say the judgment was there on my part BEFORE hand.

If someone said the same thing to you about Jeremiah or Ezekiel or Paul or Peter, cavalierly tossing out their words as coming from a wrong attitude of judgment, would you not count that as a carnal and unrighteous judgment? Of course you would. You will speak up on behalf of the Bible, while against the Author and those who speak His Words. You are a blind hypocrite, too.

Well let’s see if my judgment is unrighteous as you imply or whether your judgment was unrighteous and in error.

You said

Because you find our words a "type of attitude of judgment" that you don't like, doesn't qualify them as error. You may be wrong in your judgment of our judgment, both in where we are coming from and the validity of our words. That you do not even allow for this possibility shows you are already in error and don't understand the most basic principles of godly judgment.

And I replied

Paul words of judgment do not bother me, words of judgment without knowledge do.

Here you say I found your words as a judgment and I don’t like them so believe you to be in error, then you go on to say I may be wrong in my judgment of your judgment and that I do not even allow for this possibility shows I am already in error and don’t understand the most basic principles of Godly judgment.

Please show me anywhere in anything I wrote were I judged you or your words.

Yet here you have made a judgment of me based on NOTHING that I have said or implied and that is a judgment without knowledge. Do not let what others from tents have said to you influence you in your judgment of me Paul, judge me if you must on what I SAY not what you perceive me to say.

So if you cannot find where I judged you or your words it would behove in the Lord to remove your judgment of me least you find yourself being judged likewise of the Lord.

Did I say anywhere that because I don’t like your words of judgment that I believe you to be in ERROR?

Nope So then who here is making an unrighteous judgment of whom? If I did not say these word then who is it that put them in YOUR mouth? They CANNOT be of God else you make God a liar, so where did they come from? Therefore unless you repent and acknowledge that God never gave you these words of judgment towards me you make God a liar and He will surely judge you not I.

You go on:

"I NEVER made any conclusions or judgments towards you Paul, you are seeing things that are not there."

Either I am seeing things that are not there, or you are not seeing things that are. Which is it? What makes you think you are right, when you plainly cannot see what you have said and done? Here is a description of that in your postings, which you continue to justify:"If anyone teaches otherwise, and does not consent to wholesome words (those of our Lord Jesus Christ), and to the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud, knowing nothing. He is sick concerning doubts and arguments, from which comes envy, strife, evil speakings, evil suspicions, meddling, of men whose minds have been corrupted and deprived of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness. Withdraw from such" (1 Timothy 6:3-5 MKJV).There you were, sowing doubts, making evil surmisings, and now when you are confronted with the truth, your corrupt mind cannot comprehend it.

I just finished showing you that your words to me were not wholesome words for wholesome words are words without any mixture of error, and as anyone reading can see your words have much mixture adding things never said and saying your judgments are of God.

And I was NOT sowing doubts or making evil summarising, I asked a question to the mods why you were banned because I seen nothing in your posts that would have indicated banning. I came to your defence based on what I read at TENTS so if you see sowing doubts or making evil summarising because of that so be it.

Here are some of the doubts and arguments you present to me in your proud ignorance and sickness:

"By your own words Paul you said that you made those judgments of some of the people while still on the board, and were not dismissed until afterwards. Therefore, you dismissed them as unbelievers based on what they believe. And if you did not dismiss them as unbelievers based on what they believe what criteria did you use to dismiss them?"

Scott, show me where I "dismissed" them. I was not the one who cut off communication with anyone there; they cut it off with me and decided not to talk to me.

Paul you do realise there is more than ONE meaning to dismiss don’t you?

Here is the definition I was referring to.

“to consider somebody or something as unsuitable for a particular reason”

You most assuredly found those on Tents and now myself as unsuitable, so I stand by my statement that you dismissed them as unbleivers.

The one who did write us, Nathan, said he did not read more than ten lines of the answer Victor sent him. Yet that answer was full of good sense and applicable Scriptures. So who is dismissing whom?

What does Nathan have to do with you and I? If Nathan wants to dismiss you that is his prerogative. However, like I said you had already dismissed those on Tents as unbelievers.

Next, show me where any of the judgments I spoke in the Name of the Lord are wrong, or any in Victor's letter to Nathan. You have not and cannot do this, because our Words are from God. You are one of those who dismiss the Word of God without cause or reason.

Have not read Victors letters to Nathan, like I said what does Nathan and now Victor have to do with you and I?

However, you asked me to show you where your judgments are in error; therefore, cannot have come from God. I already showed you this but to refresh your memory here it is again.

You said

Because you find our words a "type of attitude of judgment" that you don't like, doesn't qualify them as error. You may be wrong in your judgment of our judgment, both in where we are coming from and the validity of our words. That you do not even allow for this possibility shows you are already in error and don't understand the most basic principles of godly judgment.

And I said

Paul words of judgment do not bother me, words of judgment without knowledge do.
Here you say I found your words as a judgment and I don’t like them so believe you to be in error, then you go on to say I may be wrong in my judgment of your judgment and that I do not even allow for this possibility shows I am already in error and don’t understand the most basic principles of Godly judgment.
Please show me anywhere in anything I wrote were I judged you or your words.
Yet here you have made a judgment of me based on NOTHING that I have said or implied and that is a judgment without knowledge. Do not let what others from tents have said to you influence you in your judgment of me Paul, judge me if you must on what I SAY not what you perceive me to say.
So if you cannot find where I judged you or your words it would behove in the Lord to remove your judgment of me least you find yourself being judged likewise of the Lord.

You said

You automatically take the word of any who says he or she is a Christian to be true.

I replied

Now who is presuming to understand what who believes? Show me where I said or implied I take everyone’s word on if they are a Christian or not. If you cannot show me where I said this you have erred in your own understanding and made another judgment without knowledge which is NOT according to the judgements of God or the scriptures.

You said I was offering false salvation after I had said.

“His death reconciled all men, but His LIFE is what saves all men, this salvation is not a one time deal as such, but is a long process of walking in His LIFE and forsaking our own. Taking up the cross and following Him and enduring unto the end that we might be saved."

How many more errors in your judgment would you like me to point out Paul? Surely you don’t expect even your followers let alone the other readers to believe your judgment here came from God. Instead of acknowledging your errors Paul, as you should have you have made God out to be in error because you said these judgments were of Him.

Your great error is that you judge by doctrine and count what people believe as evidence or lack of godliness. You are in worship of doctrine, not God.

While here is another error you have judged of me so everyone reading know this judgment is not of God. I don’t judge anyone to be a follower of God based on doctrine Paul I judge them based on the fruits of the Spirit, so even if they are in error in doctrine yet still produce the fruit of the Spirit I call them my bro/sis in the Lord.

These are the fruit of the Spirit Paul love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Are you manifesting these fruits in your letters to me? Or are these your fruits

Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings.

Take special note of the words hatred which means that which causes enmity, variance which means contention, strife and wrangling and strife which in the NT means a courting distinction, a desire to put one’s self forward, a partisan and fractious spirit which does not disdain low arts.

Note to your followers pay special attention to the meaning of strife and you may see something you have not seen before.

We know on Whom we have believed, and we can tell by your response here whether you believe on Him or not. Those who hear our words are of God, and those who do not hear our words, are not of God.

Note to your followers, pay special attention to the meaning of strife and you may see something you have not seen before.

"We are of God. He who knows God hears us. The one who is not of God does not hear us. From this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error" (1 John 4:6 MKJV). The Truth is not complicated by doctrinal reasoning and human calculation. That is the domain of Pharisees and religious bigots. Those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ will hear them who speak His Words, and they will obey. They will both have, and will learn, true doctrine from Him. They will not reject Him in His brethren based on the teachings of men or their own understanding. They will hear and receive Him in the flesh, but you are of those who do not:

Note to your followers pay special attention to the meaning of strife and you may see something you have not seen before.

"By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God; and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the antiChrist you heard is coming, and even now is already in the world" (1 John 4:2-3 MKJV).In your perfect worship of doctrine you defend your unsubstantiated defense of sinners:"And I stand by what I said above based on my knowledge of the people at tents, unlike you I know what many of them believe and what they do not, so my judgment of them is with knowledge whereas your judgment of them is without knowledge."You judge them by what they believe; we judge them by Whom they don’t believe, and what they say and do that proves they do not believe Him.

So you judge them based on what they SAY and DO and what they say is not judging them on what they believe? Give us all a break.

Thus you answer your own query, “Show me where I said or implied I take everyone’s word on if they are a Christian or not,” by the previous quote. You show how you are blinded by what you see and hear with your carnal senses, not perceiving the reality and manifest fruits of wickedness. Jesus said, "You will know them by their fruits," but Scott says, "I know them by what they say they believe."

You know them by what they SAY they BELIEVE but that’s not judging them on what they believe? Seems you have backed yourself into another corner Paul. You don’t judge them by what they BELIEVE yet you turn around and say you judge them by what they SAY and BELIEVE. Go figure.

Jesus said, "Judge not by appearance," but Scott says, "I will judge them by what I see." As for the fruits that are there to tell, you are wholly incapable of spiritual judgment.

Yes and we just looked at the fruits of the Spirit and the fruits of the flesh didn’t we. And every reader can clearly see who bare which fruit.

That is why you are the companion and apologist of Pharisees and those who say they are "Jews," and are not, but are of the synagogue of Satan, you being one of them yourself.

Hmmm that’s the same accusation the Pharisee hurled at Jesus.

And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners? 12But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. 13But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Jesus did not judge the Pharisees based on what they believed, as you would have it, but on what they did:"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you pay tithes of mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the more important things of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These things you should have done, and not have neglected the others" (Matthew 23:23 EMTV).

Never said Jesus judged them on what they believed I said

Jesus knew that which the Pharisees believed Paul, His judgment was with knowledge, your judgment so far has been without knowledge, and that shows me though you might be a man of God your judgments here are NOT based on the judgements of God which probe the heart of man.

Jesus knew that which the Pharisees believed but His judgement was based on the heart of man.

Here is another manifest token of the idolatry that has blinded you. You say:

"If I am lacking in discernment yet I am in full agreement with you what then can be said of your discernment?"

If you have any agreement with me, it is only partial and in the letter, but not in the Spirit even a smidgen, which is all that matters. You are as far removed from agreement with me as Hell is from Heaven.

It’s a good thing to, because we’ve seen what manner of spirit you have.

Will you really argue this point?

Nope, not at all

But for your information, we wish you were not so removed. Why in Heaven or on earth would we wish for you to be in disagreement with the Spirit? Repent, and come to the Light and Truth. Join us to fight for God, instead of fighting against Him when confronted on your vain philosophies and careless words. Stop scattering and begin gathering.

Ya would not want me Paul as I will NEVER bow to the images made of man, even if they portray that image as God.

More on which I will comment:

"I do repent, learn, and follow… but only to God and not to any man."

We cannot take your word for what you do, and there is no witness of God to your claim, except to the last four words, where Truth agrees that you are an independent son of Satan who will not take instruction from a man of God.

Anyone can call themselves a man of God Paul, but your fruit shows ALL that you are not such a man. The most I could say for you is that you are a babe in Christ who still judges by his carnal mind. Yes babes in Christ have carnal minds, look it up.

"As to my what you call my theories you have yet no idea of what I believe and what I do not."

I have more than an idea; I know Him on Whom you have not believed, by Whom I am informed of things you cannot conceive. He who saw Nathaniel under the tree lives in us. We see you very plainly, Scott, because He has given us eyes to see. It is no wonder that a blind man who thinks his blindness is sight cannot fathom or agree with the things we see and tell him that show him his blindness.

And you have become puffed up with knowledge; therefore, ye no not what ye ought to.

"As I keep telling you I was not there so won’t give any judgment concerning what took place."

In many ways you confess your status as a corrupt son of earth, having nothing to do with the saints in Heaven who judge all things by the Spirit of God, even when not present in body or person:

"For as being absent in body but present in spirit, I indeed have judged already as though I were present concerning him who worked out this thing" (1 Corinthians 5:3 MKJV).

You really need to read the scripture better Paul for ST. Paul KNEW of the fornication that took place by REPORT. First verse.

Even after "being there" by reading all the posts, you still aren’t "there," having no discernment of the spirits, yet judging mine all the same. You have no knowledge or understanding in the things of God. None. Thinking you do and acting as if it were so has made you an insufferable, pontificating jackass. Repent, Scott.

Well we will let the Lord judge who has and who has not Paul, but I know that will not sit well with you for you will come back and say the Lord has already judged me through you.

Jesus said my sheep know my voice and another they will not follow.

Yet you would have others follow you.

I know you will say but Paul said be followers together of me, but you have taken that out of context.

Paul was saying follow my example of pressing towards the mark of the high calling of God in Christ. Let that same mind be in you that is in me.

So again I’ll repeat for YOUR followers the words of Jesus.

Jesus said my sheep know my voice and another they will not follow.

You use the right words, but don’t know what they mean:

"Hmmm does a babe in Christ have need of repentance for their sins? Have they not been reconciled by His death? His death reconciled us just as the scriptures proclaim, His life is what saves us. Thus until we have endured unto the end there is always need for repentance and the need to preach it."

Babes in Christ have experienced repentance, the Feast of Passover, as it is written:"I write to you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for His Name's sake" (1 John 2:12 MKJV).Only the false are forever repenting, deceived into thinking they received Christ's forgiveness in the first place, having never forsaken their sins or taken up the cross. They have never experienced the Feasts of Passover or Pentecost, not to mention Tabernacles and the Rest of God.

Hmmm Peter repented and he was a follower of Christ, and that is enough to show your understanding to be in error here.

The true are not continually sinning, as the apostle also writes:"We know that everyone who has been born of God does not continue to sin, but the one born of God guards himself, and the evil one does not touch him" (1 John 5:18).

Hmmm Paul was a true follower of Christ yet many a time he did that which he would not willingly do. Read Roman 7 which is enough to show again your understanding is in error.

Then there are those who have had the Feasts of Passover and Pentecost, knowing the repentance of Christ and the power of His Spirit, but who are turned back to the world, for whom repentance is no longer possible:"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good Word of God and the powers of the world to come, and who have fallen away; it is impossible, I say, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify the Son of God afresh to themselves and put Him to an open shame" (Hebrews 6:4-6 MKJV).

Well according to you I know nothing concerning the Feast of Passover and Pentecost so according to you these scriptures do NOT apply to me.

You do not distinguish or recognize the Feast of Passover because you have never experienced it. You have not turned to Christ. You have repented of some sins, and been filled with religious doctrine, but you have not turned from your ways and repented of your sin. There is a profound difference between man's religious piety and God-given repentance. Those who experienced the latter will know what I am talking about. You are in need of repentance, the initial, transformative event that marks the beginning of the walk with God in Christ.

As I have said before you have no idea.

You have replaced Passover with your doctrine of "reconciliation by His death," and then assume you have "salvation by His life," the other half of your inert equation. I tell you that when one has been reconciled to Him by His death, that one has salvation by His life, for there can be no reconciliation without the Life of His Spirit, so you are a fool in your speech, a child of darkness. You have neither reconciliation or salvation in reality, they being one. It is all theoretical to you, but now exposed as straw that the fire takes away:

Thats not what the scriptures proclaim Paul, here read them for yourself.

Romans 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

When we were ENEMIES we WERE (PAST TENSE) reconciled by His death, and MUCH MORE, being reconciled, we shall be SAVED BY HIS LIFE.

Seems ye do not know as ye ought to know Paul, and we both know what the scriptures say about that.

1 Corinthians 3:12-15 EMTV(12) Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,(13) each one's work shall be made manifest; for the Day shall reveal it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall test each one's work, as to what sort it is.(14) If anyone's work which he has built remains, he shall receive a reward.(15) If anyone's work is burned up, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, but so as through fire.
In your Passoverless, Pentecostless "salvation," you do not hear the Voice of the Lord or recognize His Personal Presence and leading, the hallmarks of any true Christian life. I pointed out to you that His ministers are appointed directly by Him, not according to general words red in the Bible. As an example, Paul and Barnabas were separated by God to the preaching of the gospel among several witnesses confirming His directive; they did not simply read about it in the Bible and decide to go out on their own. But you completely overlook the distinction between hearing from God directly and reading about Him, thinking they are the same thing, and ask incredulously:

"Hmmm did you say anything different then I did? I said Jesus sends us out to proclaim His salvation, you said Jesus sends us into the ministry. We said the same thing yet you say I am in error, go figure."

The Lord hasn't sent you, Scott. If you have heard a voice, it has not been His. But you haven’t even heard one, have you? It has been your presumptuous imagination.

As of a child I have heard His voice Paul both in my spirit and vocally with my ears, so I KNOW your judgments are NOT of God Paul but of one who would set themselves up over others (remember the definition of strife in the NT) in attempts to have followers of yourself instead of leading people to follow Jesus.

You would have people follow you as you follow Jesus and like I already pointed out that is NOT what Paul was speaking about.

So I’ll repeat to those who follow you the words of Jesus.

Jesus said my sheep know my voice and another they will not follow.

What you call the cross and salvation are theoretical representations created in your own mind to substitute for the real thing. We know this because we have the Real and recognize you as one who does not have a wedding garment. Thus we bind you for removal, for you are not permitted to stay at the wedding feast.

ONLY the KING can command the binding and removal from the wedding feast Paul and as we have now all seen ye have NOT His command.

We see on your blog that you have a picture of "Jesus Christ" grouped with your dogs. That is a blasphemous representation of the true Lord Jesus Christ, but a good representation of your christ, one who travels with a pack of dogs. That was what we met at Tentmaker, and that is what you defend.

Hmmm I can think of a better analogy then that. Maybe it is a representation of the dogs that eat the crumbs that fall from the Masters table.

Read "Religious Images, Icons, & Likenesses" on our site.

No, I don’t think so Paul, so far you have said NOTHING even remotely in the NAME of Christ so why should I bother reading anything further that you have to say.

But if you make another reply I will be sure to add it to my blog so that your followers can read it and know that they are being led astray for I’ll always point out to them the words of Jesus.

Jesus said my sheep know my voice and another they will not follow.

My God give them ears to hear that message.

My Conversation with Paul Cohen

2009-03-07T05:12:00.000-08:00

Pauls C writings will be in black and my responses in color.

Hi Scott, You invited me to consider your thoughts about my answers to those discussing The Deadly Error of the Universalists on Tentmaker forum. I appreciate your offer and have done so. What follows is my reply to your comments for me and to your commentary on the matters at hand. I would have posted this on the forum, but, as you know, I have been banned from doing that. Nevertheless, we will include this correspondence on our site for those who would like to hear the answers and to be edified by the Truth.

You took note that we have some common beliefs, and commented as follows on what I said in "Deadly Error":

"So it seems to me he is a believer in the salvation of all, but holds to a working out of that salvation in each and every life by the principles and requirements God has put forth in His word…"

How true! And doesn't that say it all? Jesus is Lord, and only by knowing Him as such, in obedience to all things He says and requires, is His power to save fulfilled in a person.

As James wrote: "But someone will say, 'One person has faith, another has actions.' My answer is, 'Show me how anyone can have faith without actions. I will show you my faith by my actions'" (James 2:18 GNB). And Paul: "So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12 EMTV).

I appreciate how you differentiated between what I was and was not saying in the paper:

"You will note He does not state the deadly error of Universalism, he states the deadly error OF THE UNIVERSALISTS, which is a BIG difference."

You also made this important point to those who accuse me of "knowing it all":

"…but both myself and Craig if he was still here would tell you that we know we do not know it all but put forth what we see as of right now."

Hi Paul thank you for taking the time to reply.

You state

What I have put forth is what I actually see (not "think I see") and know from God, nothing added. Like my Brother, Jesus, I speak what the Father gives me, because I know His commandment is eternal life.

I have no problem with this Paul as I put forth what I see also not what I think I see.

Some people on the forum have treated "judgment" like a dirty word. There can be but one reason for that: they love their sins and reject life. But God loves judgment because through it He brings His people into life: "Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate: it may be that the LORD God of hosts will be gracious unto the remnant of Joseph" (Amos 5:15 KJV).

Whoever rejects His judgment does not receive His grace.

I agree; however, judgment must be done on a proper scale. (I am not accusing you of not using a proper scale Paul, as I was not there when you were banned nor am I privy to any of your posts that may have been deleted) From what I have gleaned and it may be wrong you came to the tents and made a broad judgment that no one here (on tents) knows the Lord. If you did indeed do that, you made a judgment without knowledge, for just because people are on a Universalist board own by Gary A. Does not mean everyone on the board follows his teachings or the teachings of any other Universalists. I can only speak for myself but I believed in the restitution of all things for over 20 years before I ever met another who believed in it. I did NOT receive this teaching from any MAN it was given to me directly by our Heavenly Father, and I only put forth what I SEE and not what others might believe. So by using (if indeed you did) your broad sweep of saying no one on tents knows the Lord you included me in that judgment before you even spoke to me to find out that which I believe, and that would be judging me without knowledge. And this broad sweep did not just judge me, but also other brothers and sister in the Lord before you even knew that which they believed. Please remember these comments only pertain if you did make such a broad judgment if you did not please disregard these comments or let me know in your own words what judgment you gave.

Someone on the forum characterized what we preach as follows: "Everyting that's a fraction different is 'deadly'" Scott, you replied:

I actually agree with that sentiment bro as there is only ONE truth, and anytime mans view is in place you will find that fraction deadly. My only problem here would be if Paul C thinks he knows all the truth for scripture itself tells us And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know. But I am not sure Paul C is saying he knows everything, if he indeed is then he would do well to heed the scripture I just posted.

You are right again: Anything that man interjects or removes from the gospel of Christ is deadly. That is why Paul wrote as he did to the Galatians: "But even if we or an angel from Heaven preach a gospel to you beside what we preached to you, let him be accursed" (Galatians 1:8 MKJV).

You are wrong, however, in your interpretation and application of the Scripture you quoted.

How could servants of God not know "all the truth" regarding the gospel of Christ and its real life application, when it is God Who prepares and sends them to preach? He is the One testifying to men through His chosen vessels: "For it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father Who speaks in you" (Matthew 10:20 MKJV).

Otherwise, it cannot be but that man will be found adding or subtracting from the gospel, being dependent on his limited human perspective to represent God to those whom he teaches. Going without the Mind of Christ, he couldn't help but deviate and be accursed.

But God does not work that way, because He properly equips and sustains His ministers that do His work: "You are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read by all men, it having been made plain that you are the epistle of Christ, ministered by us, not having been written with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not on tablets of stone, but in fleshly tablets of the heart.

And we have such trust through Christ toward God, not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think anything as of ourselves, but our sufficiency is of God; Who also has made us able ministers of the new covenant; not of the letter, but of the spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit makes alive" (2 Corinthians 3:2-6 MKJV). And the gift of God is to make all His children of one mind – His: "But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is judged by no one. For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ" (1 Corinthians 2:14-16 MKJV).

Here is the Scripture you have wrongly interpreted, in context: "Now concerning the things offered to idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies. And if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he has come to know nothing yet as he ought to know" (1 Corinthians 8:1-2 EMTV). The apostle is not saying that we have no knowledge. In fact, he is saying the opposite. We do have knowledge, however, that is not our Help or Answer. Even were we to have all knowledge, as he says elsewhere (1 Corinthians 13:2), unless we are walking in the Spirit of God, we are as nothing and have nothing. Those who trust in their knowledge are not walking with God.

The part I highlighted in red was actually my point in quoting 1Co.8:2. Knowledge puffeth up and if one is puffed up by their knowledge thinking that they know anything he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know. But remember Paul I did not say you did not know everything/puffed up with knowledge, I said IF you thought you knew everything/were puffed up with knowledge you did not know yet as ye ought.

Therefore, you can't conclude I know nothing because I speak with authority and say what is true. That is illogical and unScriptural.

Again Paul I NEVER made that conclusion I said IF, as I was not around when these things took place I don’t know what you said, nor would I ever make a conclusion based on what others might have said about you. If I did that it would be judgment without knowledge.

If it were possible, you need to show that what I say is untrue, not just say it is wrong based on your opinion backed by fallacious reasoning.

That my point Paul, I NEVER said what you said was untrue, or wrong nor did I base ANYTHING on my personal opinion. I do NOT KNOW what you said that why I NEVER judged you for your words or action. If I did judge you for them based on what others said do you really think I would have spoken up for you?

Because you find our words a "type of attitude of judgment" that you don't like, doesn't qualify them as error. You may be wrong in your judgment of our judgment, both in where we are coming from and the validity of our words.

That you do not even allow for this possibility shows you are already in error and don't understand the most basic principles of godly judgment.

Paul words of judgment do not bother me, words of judgment without knowledge do.

Here you say I found your words as a judgment and I don’t like them so believe you to be in error, then you go on to say I may be wrong in my judgment of your judgment and that I do not even allow for this possibility shows I am already in error and don’t understand the most basic principles of Godly judgment.

Please show me anywhere in anything I wrote were I judged you or your words.

Yet here you have made a judgment of me based on NOTHING that I have said or implied and that is a judgment without knowledge.

Do not let what others from tents have said to you influence you in your judgment of me Paul, judge me if you must on what I SAY not what you perceive me to say.

So if you cannot find where I judged you or your words it would behove in the Lord to remove your judgment of me least you find yourself being judged likewise of the Lord.

Thus you are led into making other false conclusions.

I NEVER made any conclusions or judgments towards you Paul, you are seeing things that are not there.

What I wrote to the various posters on Tentmaker had nothing to do with being banned and getting my "knickers in a bunch."

I never said that was why you got your knickers in a bunch I said that it MIGHT have been why you posted to some of them as you did, as I was not there when it these things transpired.

After all, I was banned after I wrote many of those posts.

That is my point Paul, I was not aware of that fact, as I was not around at the time and your posts were deleted. You seem to see what I said about the knickers as some kind of judgment towards you, but I actually said it in your defence. Go figure.

I spoke the truth to these people, without malice or harmful intentions, and their reactions show it is their “knickers that are in a bunch.” (If you have not, go see what has been going on since I was banned, on the thread where I introduced myself, and see how this is so.) We are not harmed at all by these reactions or the banning, but these people are surely destroying themselves in their ways.

I agree some did seem to get their knickers in a bunch and that is why I entered that thread you started because I did not see anything you wrote that caused them to react the way they did. Your posts being deleted and all.

One of your main concerns is that I have judged some on the forum not to be children of God based on what they believe. You are concerned that I am not differentiating between children who can only take milk and those mature enough to eat meat. You wonder if I am forcing meat on children, and when they cannot take it, dismissing them altogether as unbelievers.

Yes that was my concern.

This is not remotely the case. I was the one dismissed, and not over doctrine.

By your own words Paul you said that you made those judgments of some of the people while still on the board, and were not dismissed until afterwards. Therefore, you dismissed them as unbelievers based on what they believe. And if you did not dismiss them as unbelievers based on what they believe what criteria did you use to dismiss them?

Can you actually show otherwise? If you are going to bring forth accusatory conjectures you need to provide specifics or you simply should not speculate on such matters publicly. You are only adding to the confusion and abetting the wicked actions of others, who toss out the brethren of the Lord in their ignorance and darkness, thinking they do God service.

Again Paul please tell me what criteria you used to dismiss them as unbelievers if it was not what they believe? You do realise what a person believes is that which they drink (milk) or eat (meat) do you not?

You wrongly presume to understand what I think, and err in your own understanding of the ways of God and the Scriptures. You write:

"What Paul C. needs to realise, that he does not seem to, is that a child of God whether he understands everything perfectly is still a child of God. Paul (the Apostle) never said those who believed in Christ were not children of God…."

You automatically take the word of any who says he or she is a Christian to be true.

Now who is presuming to understand what who believes? Show me where I said or implied I take everyone’s word on if they are a Christian or not. If you cannot show me where I said this you have erred in your own understanding and made another judgment without knowledge which is NOT according to the judgements of God or the scriptures.

And I stand by what I said above based on my knowledge of the people at tents, unlike you I know what many of them believe and what they do not, so my judgment of them is with knowledge whereas your judgment of them is without knowledge.

The apostle Paul never taught that. He taught the opposite:

"For I know this, that after my departure grievous wolves shall enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also men shall arise from your own selves, speaking perverse things in order to draw disciples away after them" (Acts 20:29-30 MKJV). "For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light" (2 Corinthians 11:13-14 EMTV). "For a time will be when they will not endure sound doctrine, but they will heap up teachers to themselves according to their own lusts, tickling the ear. And they will turn away their ears from the truth and will be turned to myths" (2 Timothy 4:3-4 MKJV). The Lord Himself taught that many taking His Name would be the product of seed sown by the enemy: Matthew 13:25-30 EMTV (25) But while the men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went away. (26) But when the stalk had sprouted and produced fruit, then the tares also appeared. (27) So the servants of the master of the house approached and said to him, 'Sir, was it not good seed you sowed in your field? From where then does it have tares?' (28) "He said to them, 'An enemy has done this.' So the servants said to him, 'Do you wish then that we should go and gather them up?' (29) "But he said, 'No, lest gathering up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. (30) Leave both to grow together until the harvest; and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather together the tares, and bind them into bundles to burn them, but gather together the wheat into my barn."

Yep all good scriptures, I have no problem with any of them, I believe them all.

Are you not aware at all that there are tares as well as wheat?

Yep

Are you not aware that there is salt that has lost its savor?

Yep

Is talking to such the same as talking to children who are immature in understanding?

Nope

You are not walking in discernment, Scott.

Then why did I just agree with you? If I am lacking in discernment yet I am in full agreement with you what then can be said of your discernment?

You are not even aware there is such discernment, while giving me a lecture on discerning!

Baseless judgment again without knowledge.

You have some major backtracking to do on your theories. If you are Christ's you will hear, repent, learn, and follow.

I do repent, learn, and follow Paul, but only to God and not to any man.

As to my what you call my theories you have yet no idea of what I believe and what I do not.

Does the Lord tell His people to "come out from among them" in vain?

Nope

Another thing you don't recognize is that there is a place for reproving, rebuking, and exhorting:

"Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine" (2 Timothy 4:2 KJV).

Another judgment of me without knowledge, you seem to judge a lot without knowledge Paul.

Are those things only for adults?

Nope

Are not children most in need of correction,

Yep, but according to you they are not children of God but reprobates.

whereas mature adults ought to have learned discipline?

Agreed

But we know that only His children at any age receive correction. Bastards do not receive correction. Christ did not rebuke the Pharisees as God's children, but as the children of the devil He openly called them. They, as did these on the forum, protested that God was their Father, but the Lord refuted them:

As I keep telling you I was not there so won’t give any judgment concerning what took place.

"Therefore Jesus said to them, 'If God were your Father, you would have loved Me, for I came forth and have come from God; nor have I come from Myself, but He sent Me. Why do you not understand what I say? Because you are unable to hear My word'" (John 8:42-43 EMTV).

Consider, if you can, what I am saying in light of your admonishment:

"Of course saying people are not children of God who believe in Christ is off base but it might be Paul C did not take into account the difference in age (spiritually) of Gods children. And if that is the case it might be that pointing this out to him might have corrected his error and I hope he reads this and realises his error in doing that. Force feeding a babe meat just chokes the baby is a good rule to remember when speaking of the things of God, yet we have ALL been guilty of doing it."

I have not been force feeding babies, but rather rebuking Pharisees. How is it you assume a man of God cannot know the difference?

Jesus knew that which the Pharisees believed Paul, His judgment was with knowledge, your judgment so far has been without knowledge, and that shows me though you might be a man of God your judgments here are NOT based on the judgements of God which probe the heart of man.

You are quite in error, Scott, and I will show you within the text of your posting where you diverge from the gospel of Christ revealed to Paul, having mixed in some of the deadly error of the Universalists in your gospel:

"Here is a question that a lady asked here awhile back and my response to it, I post it again in hopes that both Paul C and those who have had issue with what Paul C has said might understand the difference between the reconciliation which is pasts and the salvation which is promised as I believe this is where at least in part some of the confusion has come in.

Why preach the gospel at all?

For me the reason Jesus was sent and the reason Jesus sends us is to free people through Him from sin and death. Salvation is not complete just because one believes Jesus died for them.

Believing is only the starting point on our journey toward full salvation, for we are reconciled by His death, but saved by His life.

All men everywhere are already reconciled by His death, this is a done deal because He died 2000 years ago for all men's reconciliation and mans belief or unbelief CANNOT change this fact.

If someone does not believe Jesus died for then simply does not change the fact that He did.

So then all men everywhere have already been reconciled, [my emphasis added] but not all men are yet saved from sin and death."

You are talking about two different things and treating them as one. The first is the fact that Jesus Christ finished the work of atonement and sealed it by His death. "It is finished," He said. Nothing can change this – you are right. But this does not mean that you can automatically declare your second point, that because the Lord has completed the work now, all men are reconciled to God. If that were the case, there would be no need to preach repentance.

Repentance, however, is the very first word of the gospel message:

Hmmm does a babe in Christ have need of repentance for their sins? Have they not been reconciled by His death? His death reconciled us just as the scriptures proclaim, His life is what saves us. Thus until we have endured unto the end there is always need for repentance and the need to preach it.

"Now having heard this, they were cut to the heart, and they said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, 'Men and brothers, what shall we do?' Then Peter said to them, 'Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:37-38 EMTV).

They did not receive the forgiveness of sins until they repented. They were in unrest because they were made conscious of their sin – a very real matter and not just something in their heads.

Like I said repentance is still need because not all are yet saved, just because one is a follower of Christ does not negate their need to repent of their sins.

Peter didn't answer their heartfelt cry according to your gospel, "You don't have to do anything! Don't you know your sins are already forgiven and you are already reconciled?"

Never said anything like what you just said above, you keep reading things into what I have said making statements to make it look like I said something I never did. That is a shameful tactic and unworthy of one who says he is a man of God.

Without the gift of repentance, which is a wholesale turning to God and away from sin, reconciliation cannot become reality. And even among those who have been granted the gift of repentance, reconciliation is not complete until we are made complete in Him:

You like many are mixing up His reconciliation by His death with His salvation by His life.

Two different sides of the same coin Paul, yet you seem to think they are the same.

"Now then, we serve as ambassadors for Christ, as though God were appealing through us: we implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God. For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him" (2 Corinthians 5:20-21 EMTV).

You did not quote enough of the scripture Paul, just enough to make it look like you are right.

Let’s look at just a little more of those same scriptures.

2 Corinthians 5:14-20
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. 17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.

As can be seen in the red and green part that I highlighted Paul judged that as one died for ALL then were ALL dead, and that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

The difference being that some are still dead in Christ not knowing they have been reconciled by His death 2000 years ago. Thus they have yet to pass from death unto life.

Continuing your post:

"Therefore Jesus send us out in order to proclaim His salvation by His LIFE."

Here is another common error of many evangelicals and other religious. They presume that Jesus made a commandment two thousand years ago to them.

He did no such thing. He is a present, not a past, Lord. As is recounted in Acts: "As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, So, then, separate Barnabas and Saul to Me for the work to which I have called them" (Acts 13:2 MKJV).

The sending of the Lord in His ministry is done by Him Personally and presently, as part of a calling and preparation He undertakes with every one of His servants.

Hmmm did you say anything different then I did? I said Jesus sends us out to proclaim His salvation, you said Jesus sends us into the ministry. We said the same thing yet you say I am in error, go figure.

The Lord hasn't sent you, Scott.

You have no idea.

No condemnation intended, but you will take it that way if you haven't the love for the Truth.

I don’t feel condemnation by your words Paul for there is no condemnation for those in Christ.

Continuing:

"His death reconciled all men, but His LIFE is what saves all men, this salvation is not a one time deal as such, but is a long process of walking in His LIFE and forsaking our own. Taking up the cross and following Him and enduring unto the end that we might be saved."

All true.

"Thus we are told to proclaim His death and therefore His reconciliation for all men as a FACT that cannot be disputed , and we are to do this so that the entire world can have the same hope in His LIFE that we to have. Thus it is not by His death that sin and death are defeated but by His LIFE.

When we witness about that which Jesus done, we are first to tell all men that they have been reconciled because of His death, this fact breathes hope into the world that God does indeed love them. Then after people become aware of the fact of this reconciliation by His death we are to proclaim His resurrection. And it is because of the fact that He was resurrected OUT OF DEATH that the world is given hope of the same resurrection OUT OF DEATH. We are NOT saved from death, we are saved OUT OF DEATH, for it was while we were DEAD in sin that He died and was raised to life again for us."

While there is some truth in what you write, you have left out the foundation of any true conversion – repentance, and what must follow, the baptism with the Spirit of Christ. You have replaced these with a philosophical rationale that is as satisfactory for a true spiritual life in Christ as a plastic orange tree is for food.

Never left anything out Paul I was not asked about conversion, repentance or baptism with the Holy Spirit so did not go into them. If I was asked I would have said all are needed for ones salvation.

Men are not saved by knowledge of salvation any more than their hunger is satisfied by knowledge of food.

Never said men were saved by knowledge of salvation, you keep adding your thought to what I have said as though I said them. Did I not say earlier:

“His death reconciled all men, but His LIFE is what saves all men, this salvation is not a one time deal as such, but is a long process of walking in His LIFE and forsaking our own. Taking up the cross and following Him and enduring unto the end that we might be saved."

And did you not say all true.

So how is it now you accuse me of saying men are saved by knowledge?

You are offering people a false salvation, one that retains the flesh by leaving the carnal man in charge. Your hearers are now assured of their salvation without the Lord's direct involvement. If they can comprehend what you tell them of what He has done, they can proceed in confidence as they choose. It is up to them. The journey they think to take for salvation turns out to be a fake, because they, and not God, are making it up as they go along. Nothing is happening from Him. They remain unregenerate. He is not building the house, so that they labor are doing so in vain.

Again I said

And you said all true.

So how is it I am offering people a false salvation that retains the flesh by leaving the carnal man in charge?

Did I not say and you agree with, that we must take up our cross and follow Him enduring unto the end the we might be saved?

And your say that taking up ones cross and following Christ is offering a false salvation to people, you really need to get a grip Paul.

Do you not see the corner you have backed yourself into, first you agree with me then because you add your own thoughts to what I have said you say I am offering a false salvation.

And yet you judge me as one who has not been called of the Lord. Yet it is you that is twisting my words which was your undoing here, if you wrote your reply from what you received from our Father to give to me as correction this would NOT have happened. Thus showing you have become puffed up with knowledge and; therefore, do not know, as ye ought.

You are not saving people any more than the seven sons of Sceva were casting out a devil in the Name of the Lord Whom Paul preached. The devil said to them: "Jesus I know, and Paul I am acquainted with; but who are you?" (Acts 19:15 EMTV)

Funny I know to whom I belonging to, but because you have become puffed up with knowledge I am not sure if you know to whom you belong to.

So is the effectiveness of your gospel useless. You have to come up the right Way, through Him, and not just through a second-hand knowledge of Him. That is all you have, Scott.

I would laugh Paul if these statements were not so sad, like I have said you have no idea.

He has given us firsthand knowledge, which is what you and everyone on the forum find most objectionable. You do not want to hear from Him and what He requires, only your foolish ideas and the tickling of each other's ears, just as Paul warned.

And I said

His death reconciled all men, but His LIFE is what saves all men, this salvation is not a one time deal as such, but is a long process of walking in His LIFE and forsaking our own. Taking up the cross and following Him and enduring unto the end that we might be saved."

And you said all true.

So what firsthand knowledge was it that you have been given that I do not have?

Concluding:

"So the resurrection is a moving from DEATH to LIFE, so as He died for all men, so to did He rise for all men, and this is the gospel of the good new toward ALL MEN EVERYWHERE.If one believes Jesus died for all men, should it not go without saying that when He rose again that it was for all men also? Can we really separate His death from His resurrection? If so, how then can DEATH be swallowed up of LIFE?"

Yes, every man in his own order, according to His will. Being out of order will not cut it, though. That is what I found and exposed at Tentmaker, and hear in your preaching. You continue to manifest The Deadly Error of the Universalists. It may help you to read the entire section: Universalism.

People hear what they want to hear Paul and you demonstrated that principle to perfection in this letter, for I said

And you said all true,

then went on to say that I am offering people a false salvation when clearly you can see that I believe in one taking up their cross and following Him, dying daily to the old man, walking in His perfect will, always being obedient and never deviating from that obedience of which He has called us.

And this to you is a false salvation! Yikes.

So you did not expose anything at tents Paul except YOURSELF.

And I did finish reading the entire section Paul and was in agreement with you, but now I have to wonder if you did to Gary what you just finished doing to me, putting words in his mouth that he never said just your interpretation of what he said in order to promote yourself and what you believe over others.

Jesus said other sheep I have that are not of this fold, Paul you my very well be of the fold of Christ, but you have yet to recognize His other sheep that don’t belong to your fold and because of this you trample under your feet His sheep.

The Potter and His Clay

2008-11-19T06:33:00.000-08:00

Jeremiah 18:1-17
The word which came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying, 2 Arise, and go down to the potter’s house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words. 3 Then I went down to the potter’s house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels. 4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter:

A funny thing about clay is that it has a memory of its own and always wants to return to its clay form. So when one is fashioning a vase the clay tries to fall back into its natural form. Thus being marred in the hands of the potter. It is NOT the potter who mars the clay in his hands, it is the clay trying to return to clay that mars itself. The potter wants to make a vase, the clay wants to return to its natural form.

So if we look at man who is formed from the dust of the earth and placed into the garden to be fashioned into Gods image and likeness, we can see the clay in the potters hands.

Now through mans own disobedience man marred himself in the potters hands and returned to the dust/clay from whence he was taken. Dust thou art and unto dust shalt thou return.

Now lets look at those same scriptures out of the Septuagint.

18:1 The word that came from the Lord to 2 Jeremias, saying, Arise, and go down to the potter’s house, and there thou shalt hear my words. 3 So I went down to the potter’s house, and behold, he was making a vessel on the stones. 4 And the vessel which he was making with his hands fell:

And we know that Adam fell by disobedience. Thus the potter did NOT mar the vessel
the vessel fell and marred itself.

so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

Thus the potter takes up the same clay and makes a NEW vessel out of it.
We are a NEW creation in Christ Jesus.

5 Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter’s hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.

Does nor matter how many time the clay falls from the masters hand, God will keep moulding the clay until it is fashion after His will, and once fashioned after His will the vessel is put into the fire to keep it from ever returning to its old form .

Thus proving that all vessels pass through the fire, for without the baking process the vessel will always retain it’s own will and turn to it’s old form.

El Elyon

2008-11-08T10:14:00.001-08:00

El Elyon

The different views of God shown in scripture.

The view of God is that of the MOST HIGH God or EL Elyon, is the highest view of God recorded in scripture, it shows forth His eternal (as in without beginning and without end) nature. Everything in this view stems from His infinite being where all things are done by Him and through Him. Everything starts with Him and ends with Him.

But that is not the only view of God recorded in scripture, we also have Elohim, Jehovah, El Shaddai (God Almighty), Adonai (Lord), El Olam (God of the ages) and Jehovah Sabaoth (Lord of Hosts).

When God deals with man in time He expresses Himself by that name, which is El Olam (God of the ages). This view is how God deals with man throughout every age, and He does not change from this view until man is outside of time or time is no more.

In each view we see a different aspect of who God is, in one we see God in His creative works, in another we see God in covenant to man etc.

In each of these views we see something expressed of El Elyon (Most High God) because El Elyon is the overshadowing principal of all other views of God. For it shows God before the beginning and it shows Him after all time comes to an end. It show Him before creation, before covenant, before the different ages etc. It is the highest view or aspect of God, and it shows forth LIFE which is much more then the LIFE we experience in the created LIFE, in the covenant LIFE, in the LIFE of the ages etc. Each aspect of God shown throughout scripture bring us more fully into the LIFE of the MOST HIGH GOD, EL ELYON.

God bless

Unfulfilled Prophesy

2008-09-22T03:41:00.000-07:00

Hebrews 2:8-98 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Until the whole body of Christ is crucified there still remains prophesy concerning Christ yet unfulfilled.

Colossians 1:24 24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind/lacking of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body’s sake, which is the church:

There was nothing lacking in Jesus afflictions He paid the full price correct?

Christ is not just the HEAD/JESUS but a many membered body, all prophesy concerning Christ must also be concerning the body and not just the head.

Genesis 3:15 15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Romans 16:19-20 19 For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil. 20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

Hebrews 2:8-98 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Why do we not see all things put in subjection to Christ?

Because we are the FEET and all things will not be put under subjection until the FEET are made manifest to the world.

But what do we see? We see Jesus the HEAD of the BODY of CHRIST.

Those scriptures do not pertains to Jesus Christ ALONE but to EVERY member of the BODY of CHRIST.

Until the FEET are formed the subjection of all things CANNOT take place.

Thus this prophesy will not be completed until the manifestation of the feet company.

God bless

poem on death and resurrection

2008-09-13T12:52:00.000-07:00

Spanish poet Prudentius (d. 405)

"No more, ah, no more sad complaining;
Resign these fond pledges to earth:
Stay, mothers, the thick-falling tear-drops;
This death is a heavenly birth.

Take, Earth, to thy bosom so tender,—
Take, nourish this body. How fair,
How noble in death! We surrender
These relics of man to thy care

This, this was the home of the spirit,
Once built by the breath of our God;
And here, in the light of his wisdom,
Christ, Head of the risen, abode.

Guard well the dear treasure we lend thee
The Maker, the Saviour of men:
Shall never forget His beloved,
But claim His own likeness again."

My testimony concerning the restitution of all things

2008-08-31T07:29:00.000-07:00

My testimony concerning the restitution of all things

I was visiting a church up by London ONT. and was hanging around with some of the young people at that church, I was only about 17 years old a young man at the time myself.

One of those young guys I was with asked me to read a portion of scripture ( don't ask me which one it is though, to many years ago ) he never said anything about what he saw ,just asked me to read and tell him what I saw, when I read it a light went off and the first words that came out of my mouth was , hay its talking about a second chance , being young that was what my first impression of what I later ( much , much later ) came to know people called UR.

Anyway he said that's what I see to; we both got pretty excited about it.I asked if the rest of the group saw it to, he said he did not know as he just saw it himself.

Why he would ask me (basically a stranger to him) to read those scriptures instead of someone else from his group I’ll never know. (Must have been the Lord).

Anyway we decided to tell the others young people from the group about what we saw.

Mistake number one, we both only had just begun to see this, and were not scripturally sound in our understand of it yet.

The others lambasted us with a load of scriptures that seemed contrary to what we saw.

We got our rear end kicked scripturally, because we were not prepared in the word ourselves for this opposition.

The young man I was with ( I don’t remember his name , again to many years ago ) was persuaded to return to his old understanding forsaking what God had shown him.

Even though I was soundly defeated by the multitude of scripture that was thrown at us I could not let go of what I saw.

I started to look into it more fully in order to have a answer to the scriptures that were used against what God had shown me.

Mistake number two, I brought this up to my parents who are both preachers, and believe in eternal torment.

I thought those young people kicked my rear end scripturally, boy was I in for a treat

You ever want to get into a good fight just try telling a preacher what they believe is wrong, want to get into a even better fight, try it with the preachers you live with.

Again I was soundly defeated. But it did not matter to me, if what I saw was of God He would increase my understanding, I left it with him.

For the next 24 years of my life, I walked down a road all alone except for my wife and children to whom I taught Jesus Christ was the saviour of every man.

My one brother also came to see what God had given me, and it was with him and my wife and children that I could speak freely of what I had seen.

I knew God had to have shown this to others also but I never came across anyone else until about 3 years ago I got hooked up to the net.

I found my way to my first Christian web forum.

And was promptly kicked off.

So I went to another forum , which was where I first heard the term universal reconciliation or universal salvation.

People kept calling me a universalist, so I asked them what they meant by it, and was told it was a term used for people who believed all men would be saved.

So I thought to myself, that there was probably a forum with those of like faith as me so I went looking for some.

What a blessing for me after so many years of walking alone to find others that believed as I did in everyone being saved.

Oh I still have the odd argument with my parents about UR, I have been at them for 27 years, you know like the little widow woman who asked the unjust judge to change his mind kept coming to him until his mind was changed. That’s me and my parents.

P.S. this was written a few years ago, since then 3 of my 4 sister and my mom have come to believe in the salvation of all.

All praise to His name.

Breath of Life

2008-08-23T12:34:00.000-07:00

Genesis 2:77 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Many believe that this is speaking of how natural man was created. They believe that God took dust from the ground, breathed His spirit into the dust and that this union of dust and spirit is the make up of man who is then called a living soul.

But is that what God said?

Let’s look closely at this scripture.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground.

It says plainly here that God formed MAN of the dust of the ground before He breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and before MAN became a living soul.

Now we know that man is made up of spirit, soul and body. 1 Thessalonians 5:2323 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

This man of dust already had a spirit, soul and body, for is not man made up of spirit, soul and body?

And if this man of dust spoken of here did not already have a spirit, soul and body can it be rightly called man?

Cannot we understand by this that man was already created? And that God is doing something other then creating a natural man here?

Brothers and sisters God is not creating a natural man here as in the creation of the first man Adam, but He is shaping man to be in His image and likeness here.

We read in Genesis 1:26-2726 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

The word created here comes from the Hebrew word bara and formed from Genesis 2:7 is the Hebrew word yatsar.

So why does the scriptures use two different words if they are both dealing with the creation of man?

Because the man being formed in Genesis 2:7 finds his fulfillment in Gen.1:26-27 in being created in the image and likeness of God.

Yatsar comes with the weight of something being squeezed into shape as a potter molding the clay.

Genesis 2:7 is telling us the process of how we are being formed into the image and likeness of God, it is not telling us how natural man was created, but it is telling us how the spiritual man is being created.

Genesis 2:77 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Now we have always read this scripture (me included) as to how MAN was originally created. And I believe we have been understanding it all wrong.This is not speaking about how man was originally created, but rather it is speaking of how God is making the MAN he originally created into His image and likeness.

Now when God formed MAN He formed MAN from the dust of the ground.Now this MAN God formed from the dust of the ground already had a spirit, soul, and body. He is the flesh man or the old man or the man of sin, a living creature/beast man that lives unto itself, this is that MAN we are/were before God breathes the breath of life unto MAN.

Now Gods breath is the brimstone (Is.30:33) spoken of in the second death and here it is called the BREATH OF LIFE. Now why would that which is seen as part of the make up of the second death be called the breath of life?

To understand why a part of the second death is called the breath of life let’s look at the meaning of the word BREATH.

It comes from the Hebrew word n\eshamah which is rooted in the Hebrew word nasham which means to destroy but also carries the weight of a woman in travail.

When God breathed the BREATH OF LIFE unto MAN it was for the destruction of the MAN that he was by birthing in the MAN of dust Jesus Christ.

It is because of this MAN became a living soul.

Now living soul and living creature come from the same Hebrew word nephesh.

The MAN of dust was a living creature/nephesh, living its own life until the BREATH OF LIFE was breathed upon him. Once the BREATH OF LIFE which is the birth/manifestation of Jesus Christ in the MAN of dust, MAN became a living soul/nephesh or a new creature in Christ.

Covenant with death and hell

2008-08-14T16:35:00.000-07:00

Has anyone really looked at what the covenant with death and hell IS?

I mean not just read it but REALLY looked at it.

Isaiah 28:14-1814 Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem. 15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

Those who have made this covenant with death and hell are those that say when death and hell pass through that it shall not come upon them. They have hid themselves in lies and falsehood.

But we are told in the next few verses that this pact with death and hell will be disannulled and shall NOT stand and when the overflowing scourge shall pass through those who have made this pact with death and hell will be trodden down by it.

16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste. 17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place. 18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

Thus death and hell comes for everyone and some are HURT/trodden down by it, and others overcome it and are not HURT of it.

Revelation 2:1111 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Isaiah 43:1-2
But now thus saith the LORD that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine. 2 When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee.

Does not matter how one read this****

Isaiah 28:14-1814 Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem. 15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves: 16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste. 17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place. 18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

**** it is plain that death passes over everyone.

And Here is a perfect example of DEATH passing over both Israelite and Egyptian alike but only those who had the blood applied to door and lintel where not HURT of it.

Exodus 12:22-2422 And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood that is in the bason, and strike the lintel and the two side posts with the blood that is in the bason; and none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning. 23 For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the LORD will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you. 24 And ye shall observe this thing for an ordinance to thee and to thy sons for ever.

Do we not see here that DEATH passed over both the believer and the unbeliever?

Can we not understand by this that even though DEATH passes over us that it has no POWER to HURT us?

Do we not see that we are to remember this example?

And if we are to remember it, to what purpose are we to remember it?

Is. 28:14-18 tells us why we are to remember it, and that reason is because some will tell you that death will not pass this way, that we are safe from death.

So what will happen to your faith in Jesus Christ when you find that death will indeed pass over you, your faith will be shaken and you will be HURT of that which you should never have been HURT of.

But if you had known that death would pass your way, you would have remembered that you are safe because the blood was applied to the door and lintel and you would have known that it cannot HURT you and your faith in Jesus Christ will not be shaken.

When I think of all God people in days of old I do not see that God kept them from the judgments, but kept them safe IN the judgments.

I look at Noah, being kept safe in the ark as judgment passed over.

I see lot as being one pluck from the fire.

I see Jonah as one who passed though the judgment and was spit out on dry land.

And most importantly of all I see Jesus Christ who took the judgment of sin upon Himself pass through death and death had no POWER to hold Him.

If the overcomers do not pass through the lake of fire and are not HURT of it, how do you explain Jesus Christ tasting death for every man?

After all He is the first of the first fruits unto God.

All these things tell me Jesus Christ keeps us safe IN the judgment and does not keep us from the judgment.

I can’t but help look at the other view(eternal torment) as some kind of twist on the rapture, for those who believe in the rapture also believe that they are not to be in the judgment but are raptured out of the way.

Free will choice between life and death.

2008-08-10T08:16:00.000-07:00

Deuteronomy 30:15-19
15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; 16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. 17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; 18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. 19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

There are three schools of thought concerning the choice given forth in the above scriptures.

1. That there is no choice really given because God is in total control of all choices.

If this be true then God chooses life for some and death for others. V.15 & V.19

If this is true then God only want some to love the LORD and to walk in His ways and keep His commandments. V.16

If this is true then it is God that turns the heart away which ultimately brings about death. V.17

If this is true then it is Gods will that some perish. V18 and yet we know that it is not Gods will that any should perish. 2Pet.3:9 Herein lies the folly of this belief.

2. That there is a choice but we do not make it but our old nature or God makes it for us.

That simply is NO CHOICE at all for the choice is taken out of OUR hands by our old nature or by God. Which simply means we do not really have a choice at all, which then leads back to the folly of the first line of thought.

If this is true then old nature in us is stronger then God and causes us to turn our hearts away.

3. That man has a free will and that a real choice is given to man, and man makes the choice by his free will.

This is the only school of thought that lines up perfectly with the scriptures above.

We read: I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;

God does not set before Himself life and death, and God does not set before our old nature life and death, for the old nature must die.

So who is it that God gives the choice of life and death?

The only answer that does not damage the scripture is US, by our own free will we make the choice of life or death.

And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

Who’s heart, who’s soul, who’s mind, who’s strength?

OURS

We read: But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; 18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish,

Why does God say ye shall surely perish? When we know that it is not His will that any should perish? 2Pet.3:9

Because in thy heart you have turned away from Him which for this cause He denounces us.

It is not God will that any should perish so why do some perish? Because man has a free will, and by that free will choice he perishes.

Note on perish: This does not mean those who perish cannot be saved all it means is that God places man back under the tutelage of the law which is a ministration of death but also OUR schoolmaster that leads us to Christ.

It is not the Fathers will to spank His children but if the child wilfully goes against Him he will correct His children, for if He corrects them not they are bastards and not sons.

Hebrews 12:4-11
4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. 5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? 10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. 11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Joshua 24:15
15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

Does God compel us to serve Him or does He reason together with us?

Isaiah 1:18-20
18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. 19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land: 20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

Psalm 32:8-9
8 I will instruct thee and teach thee in the way which thou shalt go: I will guide thee with mine eye. 9 Be ye not as the horse, or as the mule, which have no understanding: whose mouth must be held in with bit and bridle, lest they come near unto thee.

God instructs us and teaches us in the way that we should go by reasoning together with us, not by compulsion, for if one must be compelled to serve God then one is no better then a horse or mule who has no understanding.

Even a babe in Christ is not given a choice of life or death, this choice is only given to one who is mature.

Galatians 4:1-7Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all; 2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father. 3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world: 4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. 6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. 7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

A child differeth NOTHING from a servant, a servant does not have a free will but can only do what his master tells him to do. But we are to grow from a child/servant into a full blown son and no longer remain as a servant who has no will of their own.
Jesus said Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

Jesus as a full blown son had a free will, He could have called 12 legions of angels and never died on the cross, but He made a choice not my will, but thine be done.

Everything that God gives us must freely be given back to Him, He gave us life and we are to freely give that life back to Him. He set our will free from the slavery of bondage to the old man nature and we are to freely give our will back to Him.

God bless

Why preach the gospel at all?

2008-08-10T08:05:00.000-07:00

Without a doubt this is one of the most asked questions of Universalist, everywhere we post we come across this question.

Here is my answer to this question

For me the reason Jesus was sent and the reason Jesus sends us is to free people through Him from sin and death. Salvation is not complete just because one believes Jesus died for them. Believing is only the starting point on our journey toward full salvation, for we are reconciled by His death, but saved by His life.

All men everywhere are already reconciled by His death, this is a done deal because He died 2000 years ago for all men's reconciliation and mans belief or unbelief CANNOT change this fact. If someone does not believe Jesus died for then simply does not change the fact that He did.

So then all men everywhere have already been reconciled, but not all men are yet saved from sin and death.

Therefore Jesus send us out in order to proclaim His salvation by His LIFE.His death reconciled all men, but His LIFE is what saves all men, this salvation is not a one time deal as such, but is a long process of walking in His LIFE and forsaking our own. Taking up the cross and following Him and enduring unto the end that we might be saved.

Thus we are told to proclaim His death and therefore His reconciliation for all men as a FACT that cannot be disputed , and we are to do this so that the entire world can have the same hope in His LIFE that we to have. Thus it is not by His death that sin and death are defeated but by His LIFE.

When we witness about that which Jesus done, we are first to tell all men that they have been reconciled because of His death, this fact breathes hope into the world that God does indeed love them. Then after people become aware of the fact of this reconciliation by His death we are to proclaim His resurrection. And it is because of the fact that He was resurrected OUT OF DEATH that the world is given hope of the same resurrection OUT OF DEATH. We are NOT saved from death, we are saved OUT OF DEATH, for it was while we were DEAD in sin that He died and was raised to life again for us.

So the resurrection is a moving from DEATH to LIFE, so as He died for all men, so to did He rise for all men, and this is the gospel of the good new toward ALL MEN EVERYWHERE.

If one believes Jesus died for all men, should it not go without saying that when He rose again that it was for all men also? Can we really separate His death from His resurrection? If so, how then can DEATH be swallowed up of LIFE?

God bless

James and Paul

2008-07-20T08:32:00.000-07:00

James 1:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

These Two scriptures were used on a board to show that James and Paul did not agree with one another. Here was my reply, hope it may be helpful to others that see a contradiction between James and Paul.

Do these scriptures conflict with one another? Or are they speaking of two aspects of faith.

First it should be pointed out that Paul in Romans 4 is speaking of faith in the birth of Isaac (this is seen in verses 18-22) and James is speaking of the sacrifice of Isaac.

Two different aspects of faith.

Abraham did nothing but believe in Isaacs birth, but once Isaac/Christ is birthed in us He produces works of faith. It is these works of faith James is speaking of and this can be seen in verse 22 “Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?” /complete

If Abraham never offered up Isaac (which is works) then his faith would never have come to completion.

We can see these same works of faith also mentioned by both Jesus and Paul.

John 8:39 39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is.( Are they works of faith or works of the law)14 If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Ephesians 2:8-10 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works,(these would be works of the law) least any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. (works of faith)

2 Thessalonians 1:11 11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

Hebrews 11:7 7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark (works) to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

Now think on this; if Noah had not built the boat (which was a work of faith, the same works of faith James is speaking on) then he and his house would have drowned with the rest of mankind.
Adds another layer to “faith without works is dead” don’t it.

The scriptures under discussion.

James 2:17-26 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Romans 4:1-25What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. 9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. 11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: 12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised. 13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: 15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. 16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, 17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. 18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara’s womb: 20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; 21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. 23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; 24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; 25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

2nd death/first half of the cross.

2008-07-16T06:06:00.000-07:00

Adam was already dying the first death (natural) and when he ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil (the law) he started to die the second death.

The second death is the ministration of the law our school master to lead us to Christ.

First let’s look at the statement that Adam was already dying a natural death before he ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil (the law).

Genesis 2:16-17 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

The literal translation of the phrase thou shalt surely die is dying thou shalt die.

Adam was already dying a natural death.

Paul goes into great detail on this point in the 15 chapter of 1 Co.

1 Corinthians 15:35-38 35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

Of note here is that which was first planted is not the body that shall be, and that what is first planted is but bare grain.Bare here is gumnos which simply means naked.And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

1 Corinthians 15:42-44 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Paul goes on to explain that the natural body (which is the bare grain) is sown in corruption, dishonour, and weakness.All these scriptures tell us that the natural body (the bare grain) must come first ,then die to be raised a spiritual body.

1 Corinthians 15:45-46 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

That which is FIRST is natural and AFTERWARDS that which is spiritual.The bare grain that was FIRST sown is not the body that SHALL BE (afterwards).

1 Corinthians 15:47-49 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

We all bear the image of the first man Adam which Paul has explain is sown in corruption, dishonour, etc. but we shall ALSO bear the image of the HEAVENLY (that of Jesus Christ).

Can we not understand by these things that Adam was already dying a natural death before he ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil (the law)?

Now as to the tree of knowledge of good and evil being the law.

Two trees in the garden both a figure of the true.

Tree of life a figure of Jesus Christ our tree of life.

Tree of knowledge of good and evil a figure of the law.

There is no actual tree that gives life nor is there an actual tree that gives us knowledge.

The law or tree of knowledge was the commandment THOU SHALT NOT.

What is this tree that can bring death to man?Now we know that death comes because of sin RO.5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin.

Therefore we can see that it is sin that brings death to man , but what brings us the knowledge of what sin is? The law.

RO.3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Therefore the tree of knowledge of good and evil is the law for by eating of the tree death entered into the world.

Now is the knowledge of good and evil ( the law ) sin?

RO.7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

So we can see that the tree of knowledge of good and evil is the law, for it is only by way of the law that we have the knowledge of sin.

Now we know because of 2Co.3:7 & Gal.3:24 that the law is a ministration of death and our schoolmaster that leads us to Christ.

Now as we have already seen that Adam was already dying a natural death before eating of the law and that which is natural is first and afterwards that which is spiritual we can understand that the death spoken of by God in the phrase dying thou shalt die encompasses both the FIRST death in dying and the SECOND death in die.And that the second death which is mentioned is in reference to the LAW.

Now if you will bear with me for a moment longer I hope to make this a little more clearer if I can.

We read in
Romans 3:19 19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Galatians 3:23 23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Galatians 4:4-5 4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Galatians 5:18 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Romans 6:14-16 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Now we can understand what is stated in
Revelation 20:6 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

A thousand years is as one day, today is the day of salvation, we are to rule and reign with Christ TODAY. If we wait to rule and reign with Christ in some future time we will find ourselves being judged by the law according to our works.Those in the first resurrection are those who are led by the Spirit, the LAW no longer has any POWER over them but they have become ONE with the law.

God bless.

The Two Natures Within Man

2008-07-16T05:52:00.000-07:00

Many are aware that there are two natures at war within man, and it is to those that know this that I am writing. If by chance there are some here that do not realize this duel nature in man I hope what I give forth here will encourage them to seek God further on this matter.

Everything written in Gods word has an outward and inward application.

The wars that Israel fought with the Philistines, Amorite, Canaanite, Hittite, Perizzite, Hivite, and the Jebusite, etc. that are recorded in history also are fought within man.

The cross that our Lord died on is the same cross that works inwardly in man.

The six days of creation outwardly are also six days of creation in man.We see how the earth ( man ) was in darkness until God said let there be light.We see the fruit trees yielding fruit after their own kind and know this to be the fruits of the spirit or the fruits from the heart of man.We see the two great lights in the heavens plus the stars and can see the Father , the head of the body and its many members. The fullness of the Godhead rolled up in man.

We see how Joseph went down into Egypt to save his people, and understand this to be Christ coming into us for our salvation.

And many more such examples of that which is outward but has far greater meaning inwardly.

The Two Natures Within Man

Romans 6:5-7 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Ephesians 4:22-24 22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Colossians 3:8-10 8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. 9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; 10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Ephesians 2:14-15 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

These scriptures should be enough proof to show us that we have a two natures within us, that of the old man and the new man. One that is of a corrupt nature and one that is of an incorruptible nature.

The first thing I would like to point out is that the two natures both the old and the new are called MAN. The first nature is of the old Adam the second nature is of the new Adam. The difference between these two natures within us is clearly pointed out to us in 1 Corinthians 15. The first nature is of the corruptible nature of the flesh and the second is of the incorruptible nature of God.

So we can see that there are two Adams in man and each of these Adams has its own life.And these two lives war within us that their respective lives might be manifested.

The old man nature is of the flesh and the new man nature is of the spirit.

So let’s look at that war that take place in MAN.

Now we know that man is a tripartite being made up of spirit, soul and body.The spirit is the new man which is Christ within us.The soul is who we are with all the passions, desires and emotions.The body is the old man of the flesh.

Within the garden are Adam, woman and the serpent.Which answer to the spirit, soul and body.Adam = the new man or mind of ChristWoman= the soul with all the passions and desires or US.Serpent= the old man of the flesh or the carnal mind.

Genesis 3:1-20Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made.

Lets first look to see if man is ever referred to as a serpent , then we shall look at the characteristics of the serpent which are said to be subtil.

Gen.49:16-18 Dan is a serpent waiting for salvation. Nu.21:6-9 and Jn.3:14 Jesus Christ is a serpent being lifted up.Mt.23:27-33 The scribes and Pharisees without appear righteous but within are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. They are serpents full of dead men’s bones.

Thus we see man as a serpent.

Lets look at the serpents characteristics which are said to be subtil and does man have them.
Subtil comes from the Heb. word aruwm which comes from the root word aram.

Now we read in Genesis 2:25 25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

Naked comes from the Heb. Word arowm which comes from the root word aram.

Both subtil and naked have the same meaning and come from the exact same word aram.

In 1Co.15:37-57 we read of the bare/naked grain, and it is in reference to the first Adam or the old man and how that we bear this naked /serpentine image but shall bear the glorified image which is Christ’s.

Can we not see by this that the naked man is the serpent? And that our nakedness has need of a covering. And is not our covering Jesus Christ.

Do we not see that when man ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil/the law, that he became aware of his naked/serpentine nature.

Isaiah 58:77 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?

Proverbs 12:1616 A fool’s wrath is presently known: but a prudent/subtil man covereth shame.

Proverbs 14:1818 The simple inherit folly: but the prudent /subtil are crowned with knowledge.

Do we not see how the old man is crowned with knowledge and tries to cover his shame with a fig leaf as if to hide his naked/serpentine nature from the eyes of God.

And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons

These things should be enough to show that we have a serpent nature within us but do not realize that nature is there until the law comes into effect and shows us it is so.Many like Adam and Eve will run from this fact and try to cover it up with fig leaves, but God will find them out and put on them His own covering.

And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? 2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. 6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. 7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

Do we not see here that the woman/soul is enticed by the old man and lead astray by the lust of the eye and the pride of life.

James 1:14-15 14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Can we not see that these lusts come from within man.

she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Do we not see here the woman/soul playing the harlot with the old man/serpent leaving the new man/Christ and cleaving unto another. And how new man/Chrsit because of the love he bares for her must eat and take unto himself the same likeness for her salvation, crucifying that nature on the cross.

14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: 15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Romans 8:5-7 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Do we not see here that the enmity is between the carnal mind/old man and the woman/soul and can we not then understand Paul when he said the good that I would do I do not.

Ephesians 2:14-16 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Can we not see how Christ had to come in the likeness of the serpent so the He could abolish in His flesh the enmity between them and reconcile both unto God. For Jesus did not come to save just the woman/soul but the body also.

16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

20 And Adam called his wife’s name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

There is definitely a two fold meaning here.Depending on who the woman/soul is married to determines what seed she will produce.If she cleaves unto the old Adam she will produce the seed of the serpent.If she cleaves unto the new Adam she will produce the seed of Christ.Is it not any wonder that she is called the mother of ALL LIVING.

These two different seeds that spring forth from the woman/soul can be easily seen in Cain and Abel. One after the carnal mind the other after the spiritual mind.

Can we not see here in this Garden story the parable of the tares and wheat.

Matthew 13:24-30 24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: 25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

Do we not see here the carnal mind/old man/serpent sowing his seed in the field.

26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

Do we not see both Cain and Abel growing out of the same field.

27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? 28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? 29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Matthew 13:37-43 37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. 40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Note on the use of the word devil used in verse 39.Rotherham has it “the enemy that sowed them is the adversary”.The Concordant has it “the enemy who sows them is the Adversary”
Now whether you see the devil here as the spirit being called satan or the old man/carnal mind, one thing is for certain he is in the kingdom of heaven, and the kingdom of heaven is within us.

I know some who believe that the spirit being called satan is in the kingdom of heaven, but I see it more as the wheat are the thoughts and words that come from the new man/Christ mind and the tares are the thoughts and words that come from the old man/carnal mind.

I will make one last appeal to the scriptures to show the devil and satan are only titles given to the prince of the power of the air, the chief of all devils.

Matthew 12:24 24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.

Mark 3:22 22 And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.

Luke 11:15 15 But some of them said, He casteth out devils through Beelzebub the chief of the devils.

Thus we see the true name of the prince of the power of the air.

But it is true that he is still a devil/accuser and satan/adversary, but we can say this of more then just this spirit being.

Jesus called Peter satan and I for one do not believe that Peter is the spirit being, Peter was just Jesus’ adversary here.

But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Two minds at work here, one that savourest the things of God, the other the things of men,The mind of Christ and the carnal mind.

God bless

Original sin

2008-07-12T07:36:00.000-07:00

Original sin, what is it?

Is it what the churches have been teaching us, that Adam disobeyed God and brought sin into the world?

OR Was sin already in the world before Adam disobeyed God?

Disobedience is a manifestation of SIN that was/is already in the heart of man.

SIN was already in man before he ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

The knowledge of good and evil is the law, so let’s look at that first so we can understand what happened in the garden of Eden.

The law is the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Two trees in the garden both a figure of the true.

Tree of life a figure of Jesus Christ our tree of life.

Tree of knowledge of good and evil a figure of the law.

There is no actual tree that gives life nor is there an actual tree that gives us knowledge.

The law or tree of knowledge was the commandment THOU SHALT NOT.

What is this tree that can bring death to man?

Now we know that death comes because of sin RO.5:12

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin.

Therefore we can see that it is sin that brings death to man , but what brings us the knowledge of what sin is?

The law.

RO.3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Therefore the tree of knowledge of good and evil is the law for by eating of the tree death entered into the world.

Now is the knowledge of good and evil ( the law ) sin?

RO.7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

So we can see that the tree of knowledge of good and evil is the law, for it is only by way of the law that we have the knowledge of sin.

Let’s look back at what the tree of knowledge of good and evil is (the law) and what the law does.

The law reveals SIN to man, without the law man would not know that he was a sinner.

Adam was created in SIN but did not know that he was.

To understand this we need to look at what Paul says about Adam in 1 Cor.15

1 Corinthians 15:35-36 35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: In order for man to be quickened he must die first.

This is the order of arrangement of God Himself. Even or Lord and saviour had to die before He took on His glorified body.What is true of Him is also true of every man and this includes Adam. Until Adam died he could not be quickened unto life. That is to say until our old man dies , we cannot put on our heavenly glorified body.

1 Corinthians 15:37-38 37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

Now here we see a change made in the grain that is sown. The grain is not the body which shall come forth , but is bare grain. Once the grain is planted in the earth ( dies) it springs up into life. Now some may grow up to be wheat or some other grain, for the bare grain is not the plant that shall be.
Adam ,like everyone else is bare grain at first. He had to die to be quickened unto life. For only in resurrection can one put on the incorruptible body.This bare grain is the natural body ( old man ) that must die.
The scriptures then go on to show us that there is a difference in the bodies. For God gives it the body that pleases Him.

1 Corinthians 15:39-41 39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. 40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

1 Corinthians 15:42-44 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Now this natural body which Adam had and we also have is sown in corruption. For without resurrection our bodies are corrupt. In the resurrection our bodies are raised in incorruption. The natural body that Adam had and we also have is sown in dishonour , but raised in glory. Sown in weakness ,raised in power. Sown a natural body , raised a spiritual body. All these scriptures tell us that the natural body must come first ,then die to be raised a spiritual body. Only in resurrection is there a glorified body, therefore Adam had to die in order to put on a glorified body.

1 Corinthians 15:45-46 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Now the first man Adam was MADE a living soul, the following scripture says that the living soul is natural, or a natural body as the preceding scripture states. And this is how Adam was fashioned. This is all in contrast to Jesus Christ which was made a life giving spirit.Living soul is also translated living creature. Soul and creature both come from the same Hebrew word nephesh.

1 Corinthians 15:47-49 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

The scriptures go on to say the first man (Adam) is of the earth, earthy and as we have borne the image of the earthy ,which image Adam had, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now is the image that Adam bore that of a natural earthy body the image of God? No , this natural earthy body must die first in order to be resurrected, for only in resurrection are we given a heavenly body.

Now in conclusion Paul says
1 Corinthians 15:50-51 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed.

That is to say the life of the flesh ( that Adam and we have) cannot inherit the kingdom of God.This life of the flesh must die first for corruption cannot inherit incorruption.We must all be changed.
The bare grain (Adam) that was first planted, is not the body that shall be.That which thou sowest is not quickened EXCEPT IT DIE.
Adam could not have had this incorruptible body , or he would not have been able to die.That which is born of God CANNOT sin.
God bless.

Fitted to destruction

2008-07-08T07:03:00.000-07:00

There is a doctern that the church has been teaching for so long now that mankind excepts it without actually taking it to God and check it out in His word to see if it is true.This doctern is based on fear and is a lie more damaging then the one about the rapture.This doctern is ETERNAL TORMENT (E.T.) it is a lie and has not even entered into the mind of God. The scriptures tell us that Jesus Christ is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. 1Tim4:10

Did you get that? Jesus Christ is the Saviour of ALL MEN, SPECIALLY of those that believe.

The bible tell us Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Brothers and sisters this corn of wheat was FITTED to destruction. which brings me to the topic at hand.

What does it mean to be fitted to destruction?

I see two different conclusions to this verse.1) ALL MEN-UNIVERSAL2) ONE MAN-PERSONAL And I believe the scriptures speak of both and that both are assured to come to pass.

1) ALL MEN

Ro.9:19-24 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Now why would God make vessels unto dishonour ?

So that He could shew His wrath and make His power known.(the power of thecross)

Why did He make vessels unto honour ?

So He could make known the riches of His glory.

The vessels unto honour everyone I think will agree are those that overcome in this life,and the vessels of dishonour are those that don't.

Okay then lets look how God is going to shew forth the power of the cross to the vessels of dishonour.

What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

You can see that these vessels are fitted to distruction,but what does it mean to be fitted to distruction?

Let look at it:

The word fitted comes from the Greek word 2675 katartizo { kat-ar-tid’-zo}
from 2596 and a derivative of 739; TDNT - 1:475,80; v
AV - perfect 2, make perfect 2, mend 2, be perfect 2, fit 1, frame1, prepare 1, restore 1, perfectly joined together 1; 13
GK - 2936 { katartivzw }
1) to render, i.e. to fit, sound, complete1a) to mend (what has been broken or rent), to repair1a1) to complete1b) to fit out, equip, put in order, arrange, adjust1b1) to fit or frame for one’s self, prepare1c) ethically: to strengthen, perfect, complete, make one what he ought to be

Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon

so you can see they are to be made complete as they ought to be made,and how is that? in the image of God.

So then both the vessels of honour and dishonour are made complete in Christ.

All men will be saved.

2) ONE MAN
Verse 21 says Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the SAME LUMP to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? This SAME LUMP is speaking of ONE MAN (one body). It is speaking of our old man (flesh) and the spiritual man. One vessel unto honour ( spiritual man) ,one vessel unto dishonour (old man) of the SAME LUMP. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Verse 17 says For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

Am I ever glad that God in His wisdom used Pharaoh for this statement. Pharaoh is an example of our old man (flesh). Pharaoh kept Gods children in bitter bondage and would not let them go , until the deliverer Moses ( type of Christ) came and delivered Gods people out of bitter bondage, and slew Pharaoh and the Egyptians in the sea(type of baptisem).

In like manner our old man (flesh) keeps us in bitter bondage until we are delivered by Jesus Christ and our old man(flesh) and all works of the old man (flesh) are destroyed by baptisem in the cross of Jesus Christ.

Our old man(flesh) is fitted to destruction so the new man can come forth , Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

This is exactly what the second death accomplishes in our life.

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

They shall not be hurt does not by any means mean that they don't go though the 2nd death , it means that they do go though but like the 3 Hebrew children they will not be hurt in the fire.

They have in fact become a part of the fire.

More on fitted. (katartizo )

Katartizo ( fitted ) Is always used for making things as they should be made.

We read in Mt.4:41 & Mk.1:19 of James and John mending (katartizo ) thier nets.

We read in Co.1:10 how we are to be perfectly joined together (katartizo) in mind and judgment with Christ.

In Gal.6:1 we read how we are to restore(katartizo) one who are taken in a fault.

In Heb.13:20-21 we read how our great shepherd through the blood of the everlasting covenant, makes us perfect (katartizo) in every good work to do His will.

And in
1 Peter 5:10 we read

10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect(katartizo) stablish, strengthen, settle you.

That after we have SUFFERED a while makes us perfect, establishs us, strengthens us,and settles us.

Brother and sisters we are all fitted to destruction , wherein our old man is crucified forevermore no longer to rise again because a NEW MAN is standing where an old man once stood.

God will mend and restore us in His fire unto a perfect man.

God bless

Sacrifice and offerings

2008-07-03T15:05:00.000-07:00

KJVJer 7:22 For I spoke not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
Jer 7:23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.

If I am not wrong the contradiction people see here is God saying He did not give command concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices, which we know He did according to Moses.

First thing I would point out is God gave the Law written in stone BEFORE He gave the commands concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices.

In the day God brought the people out of Egypt He gave commands for us to OBEY HIS VOICE but the people would not listen to OBEY HIS VOICE so God commanded burnt offerings and sacrifices for the people.

If the people had OBEYED HIS VOICE then there would have been no need of burnt offerings and sacrifices. But because of the peoples disobedience God instituted a way for man to come before Him in repentance by burnt offerings and sacrifices.

We see this very principal brought out in1 Samuel 15:22
22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

God has far more delight in our obedience then He has in us having to offer up burnt offerings and sacrifices for our sins.

If we OBEY Him we have no need of sacrifices.

If you read the whole chapter of Jer.7 you will see that the people seemed to think that they could continue in sin because all’s they then had to do is offer up burnt offerings and sacrifices and God would forgive them their disobedience.

They seem to be using the burnt offerings and sacrifices in order to continue living in a sinful way. They were using the burnt offerings and sacrifices WRONGLY for the burnt offerings and sacrifices were put in place by God for the purpose of when we disobeyed God we had a place of recovery from our disobedience.

They were NOT put in place for us so we could disobey God and get away with it by means of burnt offerings and sacrifices.To OBEY God is better then the need of SACRIFICE. (paraphrased)

Brother/sister do we not see this same thing today, people because of the sacrifices of Jesus Christ for every man use His sacrifice for our sin to continues to live in sin.

Is this not what Paul was pointing out here?
Romans 6:1-2What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

And I think the reason God commanded these sacrifices and offerings was so that the people would see what a heinous act it was that they must slay an innocent life for their own sinful ways.

Ezekiel 20:25
25 Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live.

God bless

Same Law

2008-07-02T11:14:00.000-07:00

We read is 2 Corinthians that the ministration of death is to be done away with.

What!

How can that which leads to Christ be done away with?

2 Corinthians 3:6-14 6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. 7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. 10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. 12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: 13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: 14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

Luke 10:25-27 25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? 27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

Matthew 22:36-40 36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Mark 12:28-31 28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

These commandment were known and read.

So then why does it say in another place it’s a new commandment?

Answer to this question is further down in the post.

John 13:34-35 34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. 35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

1 John 2:7-8 7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. 8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.

2 John 5-6 5 And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another. 6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Answer: Because the natural man ( old man ) does not understand spiritual things.

When the Spirit of God reveals the true meaning of the law to us , it becomes new to our understanding, but the truth was always held in the law, for the law is spiritual.

John explains this when he wrote “Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.”

Then he explains why the old commandment becomes new “because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.”

The commandments then have been written in our hearts.

I ‘ll repeat this It’s the same law, its just how we apprehend the law, for the old man it’s death, for the new man it’s the law of the Spirit of life in Christ.

When we are in Christ all things become new. A new heaven and earth.

Romans 8:1-4 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made us free from the law of sin and death.

I am in full agreement with this statement.

So then how does the law of the Spirit of life frees us from the law of sin and death?

We have to die to self before we are free from the law of sin and death.

Now we cannot die to self because we are weak though the flesh, or said another way, our fleshly natural life cannot die to itself. Thus God sending His son in the likeness of sinful flesh ,and for sin ,condemned sin in the flesh.

For what purpose?

That the righteousness of the law might be FULFILLED in us.

This is done not of works but by faith in Jesus Christ. We of our own selves cannot keep Gods laws, but Though faith in Christ we are able to fulfill Gods law.

Jesus Christ is our example 1Pe.2:21

Matthew 5:17-18 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Now as Jesus is our example and He fulfilled the law ,we must also fulfill the law or we do not live after our example.

Now let me make this as plain as I can so no one accuses me of trying to bring us again into bondage of the law. It is though faith in Jesus Christ that the law can only be fulfilled, not by any works of the law we try to do. The fulfilling of Gods law is all done though faith.

The above scripture say Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Until the law though Christ is fulfilled in us by faith one jot or tittle shall in no wise pass from the law.

Galatians 2:15-21 15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. 17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. 18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

This passage of scripture is speaking of trying to be justified by the works of the law, this we cannot do. Our justification come only though faith in Jesus Christ. For if righteousness cometh by the works ( for it is works of the law these scriptures are speaking of) of the law then Christ is dead in vain.

Paul explains how it is though life in Christ that he liveth.

Therefore it is Christ that liveth in us and not of ourselves that Gods law is fulfilled.

For Jesus Christ fulfilled Gods law in His person and He will fulfill it in ours also.

This is explained further in Romans 10:1-4 Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

The end of the law is the fulfillment of it for Jesus did not come to destroy the law but to fulfil it.

When the law is fulfilled in us though Jesus Christ the law has no more hold on us for we have become dead to it but alive onto Christ.

This is worth repeating here:And it is by fulfilling the law that the law no longer has any power over us.

Romans 13:8-10 8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

We can see here that love is the fulfilling the law.

Matthew 22:36-40 36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

All Gods law hang on two principles: to love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, soul and mind and to love our neighbour as ourselves.

If God law is done away with then so is the commandment to love the Lord with all our hearts and our neighbour as ourselves for on these two commandments HANG all the law and the prophets.

if you can except it the commandments “thou shalt not” are not just commandments per say but they are also a commandment with the promise to us “ thou shalt not”.

Example: “thou shalt not” covet is a commandment telling us not to covet.

Now if we look at the promise side of it we see “Thou shalt not” covet, meaning when we are in Christ we “will not covet.”

1 John 3:20-24 20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God. 22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24 And he that KEEPETH his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

If we are not keeping His commandments we are not dwelling in Him, but have again come under the law.

It is the fulfilling of the law that loosens us from the bondage of the letter of the law.

This is only done by faith in Jesus Christ who fulfills Gods law in us. If we are alive in Him how can we not but fulfill Gods law.

The law is spiritual and it is the spirit of the law that works death in us.

When people look at the law they look at it in letter and that is why sin takes a hold and does what it does. But the law is spiritual and always has been, but people don’t realise this, they only see the letter.

And this is where many make their mistake, seeing in letter that which is spiritual.

The law is not done away with only our understanding of the letter of the law is done away with, when we walk in the spirit we understand spiritual things, thus we now fulfill the spiritual law.

The commandment to love God with all of our heart, soul, mind and strength is as spiritual today as it was when God first proclaimed it way back when.

We have all read how the stone was rejected, and the stone of course is Christ and many today still reject the stone wherein we find the DABAR/LOGOS of God.

If the words that are written in stone are rejected and of no further use why do so many then fulfill them when walking in the spirit?

It because they are SPIRITUAL and only those who walk in the spirit understand them.

The law is our school master to lead us to Christ, now what do the scriptures tell us about who leads us to Christ?

Is it not the Holy Spirit?

Is it not God?

No one can come unto Jesus unless the Father draws them.

What!

is there another way one is drawn to Christ then by the Father?

So for many it would seem, for they believe the law is a letter and by that letter we are drawn to Christ and then the letter is of no further use.

But what I see is that the law is SPIRITUAL and the very LOGOS of God.

Thus the death and the drawing are all of GOD and not by any letter.

And it is NOT until people realise that the law is SPIRITUAL and not of the letter will they continue to believe that which is SPIRITUAL is destroyed.

We are not under the law as a tutor anymore because the law/LOGOS has become a part of who we are.

God bless

MUCH MORE then aionios life

2008-06-29T10:09:00.000-07:00

MUCH MORE then aionios life

Many of God people believe aionios life is the fullness of life in Christ, and because of this error they have a hard time answering the eternal punishment and eternal life scriptures.

They will state such things as aionios can mean something different within one sentence, and it subject determines the fullness or lack thereof of the meaning.

But the Universalist need not change the meaning of aionios in such a fashion to understand Gods eternal (as in without beginning and without end) being. For there are other words in scripture to show forth Gods eternal (as in without beginning and without end) being.

Before I show how God is eternal in the sense of without beginning and without end lets look at a few more scriptures that will help the reader understand aionios only means age-lasting and is of limited duration.

The Hebrew word for aionios is olam, so lets look at a few scriptures from the old testament.

Habakkuk 3:6
6 He stood, and measured the earth: he beheld, and drove asunder the nations; and the everlasting mountains were scattered, the perpetual hills did bow: his ways are everlasting.

The reader can see here that both the hills and Gods ways are everlasting. So if olam or aionios in the Greek means without beginning and without end then the hills had no beginning and will have no end, but we know that the hills have a beginning and we no that they have an end because they bow down.

Now the only way for those who believe in eternal torment can get around this is to say olam means one thing in the first part of the sentence and means something else in the second part of the sentence. Thus even though Matt says the Universalist must do this in order for their theology to work, we can see that those who believe in eternal torment must do this in order to make their theology to work.

But the Unversalist need not do thing in order for their theology to work, I’ll show why in a few minutes, please bare with me.

Psalm 41:13
13 Blessed be the LORD God of Israel from everlasting, and to everlasting. Amen, and Amen.

Psalm 90:1-2
1 Lord, thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations. 2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.

Here the reader can see God is from olam/aionios to olam/aionios.

If olam/aionios means without beginning and without end then these scripture makes absolutely no sense, for can there be more then ONE eternity? Hardly, so the reader cans see olam/aionios is used in the limited sense of age-lasting.

So as the reader can see olam/aionios means age-lasting and is always used in a limited sense.

But some will say if it is always used in a limited sense then that would mean aionios life is also limited in duration. This is CORRECT, aionios life is of limited duration.

I already know many will say that’s blaspheme, but bare with me for a few more moments if you will.

Lets go back to Ps.90 for a moment and read it again.

Psalm 90:1-2
1 Lord, thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations. 2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.

We have already seen olam/aionios is of limited duration, but what else does this scripture tell us? It tells us that the LIFE of God is GREATER then that of olam/aionios, for God is FROM olam/aionios TO olam/aionios.

The Life of God and of Christ is not just olam/aionios but their LIFE is MORE then that, yea MUCH MORE.

Their LIFE exceeds the olam/aionios life just as a week exceeds a day, a month exceeds a week and a year exceeds a month, so to does the LIFE of God in Christ exceed olam/aionios LIFE.

The error both camps fall into is the belief that aionios life is all the life there is in God and Christ.

But as the reader just read God is FROM olam/aionios TO olam/aionios, thus is it not then clear that we to in Christ are given a LIFE far greater then just olam/aionios LIFE.

Lets read in Hebrew and you will see Christ life (and therefore ours) exceeds that of olam/aionios life.

Hebrews 7:16
16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

Akatalutos-Endless: indissoluble, not subject to destruction
From the root of A or Alpha: Christ is the Alpha to indicate that he is the beginning and the end

Now as Akatalutos-Endless clearly shows that of a life without beginning and without end, why did not the writers of the scriptures use Akatalutos concerning punishment and life instead of olam/aionios? Is it not because olam/aionios is of limited duration?

What we receive in Christ is a AKATALUTOS/ENDLESS LIFE, a life that spans EVERY olam/aionios age-lasting life. Just as Gods life is FROM olam/aionios TO olam/aionios so to is ours in Christ.

Lets read in Pet. To further see this life we are to inherit that is MUCH MORE then olam/aionios life.

1 Peter 1:3-4
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

Aphthartos-incorruptible: uncorrupted, not liable to corruption or decay, imperishable
Again From the root of A or Alpha: Christ is the Alpha to indicate that he is the beginning and the end

Amarantos-fadeth not away: not fading away, unfading, perennial
Again From the root of A or Alpha: Christ is the Alpha to indicate that he is the beginning and the end

Can not the reader see here just how much more grand our life is in Christ then just olam/aionios age-abiding life?

These are just a few examples of how MUCH MORE our life in Christ is then olam/aionios life.

If punishment was to be eternal in the sense of without beginning and without end surely the Holy Spirit would have use one of the words expressed above to show this, but NEVER is any of these words that express endlessness EVER used in the punishments of God.

Praise God there is MUCH MORE to life in Christ then just that of olam/aionios life, and it is because so many of God people do not realise this that they fall into the error of changing the meaning of words within the same sentence.

Brothers and sister there is absolutely no need to do this if one can but see the life we have in Christ is MUCH MORE then olam/aionios life.

Even FROM everlasting TO everlasting, thou art God.